17-10-2003 07:42									#151
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Plans for 2150:
-Hayseed NW (then mine)
-If Fatty survives and is damaged, fort. If he someone survives without damage, move S
-If BE damaged, fort. If not damaged, W. If killed, holy barbs Batman!
-Gourmand S
-Buffet works mines NW and NE, plus unimproved grasses NW-NW and NE-E
-Chow Mein works wheat, cattle, and bonus grasses E and E-NE. If the governor correctly chooses the furs to work (he should with that big a food surplus and emphasize production set), the settler should only take 1 turn, though the game will report two with these settings.

	17-10-2003 19:10									#152
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Barbs, barbs, barbs! Has someone here been cursing the RNG gods?

	19-10-2003 00:17									#153
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2150 bc save is with us:

Fatty not only survived, but wasn't even attacked - 2 barbs (one fortified) are to the E of him on a hill - if there was 1 barb I would attack, but not with 2 I think. Also 1 barb has disappeared so probably moved off - we should keep an eye out on the west for them and protect or move our workers out of harm's way.

Also the barb W of Big Eater has moved off - allowing us to go W if we want.

	19-10-2003 05:38									#154
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2110:
-Farmer E and mine
-Hayseed mine
-Gourmand: E or S?
-Fatty S
-Big Eater: If he's damaged, fort. Otherwise, move S
-New settler in Chow Mein N-N-W
-Pointy the Spear (Chow Mein) N-N-W to protect the settler
-Waiter (Buffet) N
-Chow Mein starts building another settler. Works wheat, cattle, and bonus grass E of city

Edit: Added Sharpe's plan to explore NE with Waiter

Last edited by Kloreep on 19-10-2003 at 05:49

	23-10-2003 05:23									#155
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Turn's here. Since we didn't get to discuss the moves beforehand, I suggest we hold the save for around our 24 hours.

2070 BC (save here) proposed plan:
-New spear in Buffet to be named "Fork", moved to Chow, and forted
-Waiter N
-Pointy fortifies
-Settler founds city 1B ("Egg Roll"?)
-Fatty: SE, SW, or S?
-Gourmand: SE or S?
-Big Eater S
-Buffet citizen NW of city moves to bonus grass S-SE of city
-"Egg Roll"(?) citizen works now-vacated mined bonus grass, build set to barracks for now

	23-10-2003 06:25									#156
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2070 BC (save here) proposed plan:
-New spear in Buffet to be named "Fork", moved to Chow, and forted
Agreed (though I still like my Fork! Spoon! argument)

-Waiter N
Agreed

-Pointy fortifies
Agreed

-Settler founds city 1B ("Egg Roll"?)
Fine - although I like Won Ton soup (sp?) early on in a buffet too

-Fatty: SE, SW, or S?
S - has the best exploration possibilities - SW wouldn't show as much with all of those mountains , and SE being on a hill wouldn't show as much as mountains

-Gourmand: SE or S?
S - looks as though there is coast to the SE, so I prefer uncovering more land

-Big Eater S
Agreed

-Buffet citizen NW of city moves to bonus grass S-SE of city
-"Egg Roll"(?) citizen works now-vacated mined bonus grass, build set to barracks for now
Ok re barracks - however, we can use any rivered square for the same result as NW of Buffet

Addition:
Move Fat Bastard S-S to be able to reach mountain next turn to peak on anyone that may be approaching us

	23-10-2003 08:57									#157
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Plans for 2030 BC:
-Hayseed mines
-Waiter N
-Fatty: SW to follow coast or E to investigate the spices area?
-Big Eater SW
-Gourmand S
-Fat Bastard S
-New Chow Mein citizen should work the now-mined bonus grass N of the city (will likely start out on the furs)

	25-10-2003 01:03									#158
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-Farmer: Depends on the city site. If we plan to settle 3 next, Farmer should move S-S-W to road and irrigate the plains.
-Fat Bastard S. If the hill tile S-S-S of his current mountain will allow him to see anyone trying to pass our bottleneck.
-Gourmand S. Let's move forward toward the jungle and try to find LL.
-Big Eater SW. Staying on the hills for vision
-If Fatty is damaged, fort. Otherwise move S. If S is blocked by the barb, go SE
-Waiter N or W? If he cuts west across the tundra, he can investigate the spice area. If he moves N, we can explore the northern tundra more, probably finding a hut or two and (dare we dream?) possibly strategic resources.

	25-10-2003 19:34									#159
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-Farmer: Depends on the city site. If we plan to settle 3 next, Farmer should move S-S-W to road and irrigate the plains.

Agreed

-Fat Bastard S. If the hill tile S-S-S of his current mountain will allow him to see anyone trying to pass our bottleneck.

Agreed

-Gourmand S. Let's move forward toward the jungle and try to find LL.

Hmm I probably favor going east - from what Sunshine has told us - MAST is east of them and they said that LL was NE ? of them , so LL is likely above the jungle - we need to see how far east of the crucial horse they are.

-Big Eater SW. Staying on the hills for vision

Agreed, but better head up back north soon - from the coasts we see with Fatty it is looking possible that the area W of us ISN'T connected to that southern area (which would be very very good for us )

-If Fatty is damaged, fort. Otherwise move S. If S is blocked by the barb, go SE

Hmm , I wouldn't mind starting to see what is near those spices , so SE might be better, but S would be ok too (my worry is that more barbs are around don't want to get caught in a barb crossfire - where there is one barb, there has to be a barb camp too)

-Waiter N or W? If he cuts west across the tundra, he can investigate the spice area. If he moves N, we can explore the northern tundra more, probably finding a hut or two and (dare we dream?) possibly strategic resources.

Doesn't look as though there is anything more N, however we do see patches of green to the W - so I would personally head NW or W then W from after that.

Just loaded up the new save - MAST has offered us Mysticism and they DON'T have Bronze Working, The Wheel and Masonry (wow LL and Sunshine must not have traded them much). We should find a good match among those for Mysticism and PM them to ask them what tech they have telling them we have 2 other techs that they don't

	26-10-2003 01:01									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe -Gourmand S. Let's move forward toward the jungle and try to find LL. Hmm I probably favor going east - from what Sunshine has told us - MAST is east of them and they said that LL was NE ? of them , so LL is likely above the jungle - we need to see how far east of the crucial horse they are.

You're right, Sunshine said MAST was due east and LL was north of MAST. Let's go E.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe -If Fatty is damaged, fort. Otherwise move S. If S is blocked by the barb, go SE Hmm , I wouldn't mind starting to see what is near those spices , so SE might be better, but S would be ok too (my worry is that more barbs are around don't want to get caught in a barb crossfire - where there is one barb, there has to be a barb camp too)

Looking more closely at Waiter, he still may have a lot of ground to cover and it would take him a while to head directly to the spices. So I agree with stopping Fatty to investigate the area, and, for that purpose, let's send him E.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe -Waiter N or W? If he cuts west across the tundra, he can investigate the spice area. If he moves N, we can explore the northern tundra more, probably finding a hut or two and (dare we dream?) possibly strategic resources. Doesn't look as though there is anything more N, however we do see patches of green to the W - so I would personally head NW or W then W from after that.

I think there's still some tundra up N, tundra that may hold huts. I think we should continue N for at least this turn.

	26-10-2003 03:05									#161
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*Updated* Plans for 1990 BC (as always, please comment):
-Farmer: Depends on the city site. If we plan to settle 3 next, Farmer should move S-S-W to road and irrigate the plains. If we plan to settle 2, he should move NE-NE
-Fat Bastard S. If the hill tile S-S-S of his current mountain will allow him to see anyone trying to pass our bottleneck.
-Gourmand E. Let's try to find LL.
-Big Eater SW. Staying on the hills for vision
-Fatty? I think E to investigate spices
-Waiter N or W? I think N

	26-10-2003 07:56									#162
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Plans for 1950 BC:
-Farmer roads
-New spear in Buffet to be named "Spoon" and moved to Chow Mein to prevent riot.
-Waiter: NW or W?
-Fatty E
-Big Eater SW
-Gourmand E to see if the coast keeps curving
-New Chow Mein citizen should start on the furs forest; move it to the lake SE of the city for some commerce. (If it doesn't start on a forest, we're in trouble; we'll have to move the Buffet citizen on Chow's bonus grass to the unimproved bonus grass by Buffet so that Chow can work the tile)
-Switch Egg Roll to the palace as a Pyramids pre-build?

Edit: I've been looking at a timeline for getting Buffet up to 10spt, and if we build one more spear and then a worker, we can accomplish this in 23 turns (Buffet will reach pop 5, the needed pop, in 16 turns if we build the worker, 7 turns before the needed mines can be completed by a worker built in 5 turns)

Last edited by Kloreep on 26-10-2003 at 08:02

	26-10-2003 10:45									#163
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I'll try to take a look in a bit and give my opinions. Oh and even though I voted for city site 2, I'm not averse to 3.

	26-10-2003 11:14									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Plans for 1950 BC: -Waiter: NW or W?

West. Uncovers more tiles that way.

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep -New Chow Mein citizen should start on the furs forest; move it to the lake SE of the city for some commerce. (If it doesn't start on a forest, we're in trouble; we'll have to move the Buffet citizen on Chow's bonus grass to the unimproved bonus grass by Buffet so that Chow can work the tile)

I'm not quite sure if the corruption will knock off a shield, but assuming it does we will receive 7 shields in Chow Mein next turn if it works the forest when it grows. Building the settler only takes 14 shields so leaving that WF on the forest fur is preferable as we will get the last 7 shields we need the next turn. If corruption does not take the other shield then we will only need six shields to build the settler and we can move the WF to the lake tile.

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep -Switch Egg Roll to the palace as a Pyramids pre-build? Edit: I've been looking at a timeline for getting Buffet up to 10spt, and if we build one more spear and then a worker, we can accomplish this in 23 turns (Buffet will reach pop 5, the needed pop, in 16 turns if we build the worker, 7 turns before the needed mines can be completed by a worker built in 5 turns)

Both sound good.

	26-10-2003 11:19									#165
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Oh, one more thing I noticed. We are currently researching math at 100% for 9 turns with a -2gpt drain. Moving the slider down to 90% still gives 9 turns but also frees up 1gpt. It really depends on whether we want to get the gold back now, or if we research at 100% and get all the gold back on the last turn. My preference is now, because sometime even setting the slider to 10% on the last turn doesn't get you all your gold back.

	27-10-2003 02:18									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I'm not quite sure if the corruption will knock off a shield, but assuming it does we will receive 7 shields in Chow Mein next turn if it works the forest when it grows. Building the settler only takes 14 shields so leaving that WF on the forest fur is preferable as we will get the last 7 shields we need the next turn. If corruption does not take the other shield then we will only need six shields to build the settler and we can move the WF to the lake tile.

I checked last turn by moving the wheat citizen to the furs forest (and then back, of course ); corruption doesn't increase.

quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Oh, one more thing I noticed. We are currently researching math at 100% for 9 turns with a -2gpt drain. Moving the slider down to 90% still gives 9 turns but also frees up 1gpt. It really depends on whether we want to get the gold back now, or if we research at 100% and get all the gold back on the last turn. My preference is now, because sometime even setting the slider to 10% on the last turn doesn't get you all your gold back.

Good point. I think we should keep on 100% for now, because if we do, growth might give us enough commerce to finish sooner than if we knocked it down now. But once it gets closer let's start lowering it.

	27-10-2003 21:22									#167
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Plans for 1910 BC:
-Hayseed NW
-New settler W-SW to site 3. Spear does not follow unless the settler is threatened. Buffet will need the upcoming spear for its own MP, and Chow will also need its two spears for MP soon. If worse does come to worse and there's a barb, we can move Knife to Chow and then either Spoon or Fork to site 3; Buffet should be able to afford to temporarily lose a citizen now.
-Waiter W. It looks like we have some straight tundra up north, so the hill will actually give some small sight bonii.
-Gourmand S to pop the hut (we don't have to bother with changing Chow to another build, as owning a settler unit prevents you from getting a free one)
-Fatty E
-Big Eater S
-Fat Bastard S
-Check Chow Mein to make sure it's working Wheat, cattle, and the river bonus grass. Thanks for pointing this out Sharpe

Last edited by Kloreep on 28-10-2003 at 07:03

	29-10-2003 06:59									#168
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1870 BC:
-Hayseed mines
-Farmer irrigates
-Settler founds "?"
-Waiter NW
-Fatty S
-Big Eater SE
-Fat Bastard S
-Gourmand E (I think Gourmand should be the one to continue the search for LL as he has a better chance against barbs)
-Busboy S
-Make sure new Chow Mein citizen works the bonus grass N of the city

	30-10-2003 03:04									#169
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The save is already at CoD so we should be getting it soon. Things are moving quickly right now.

As to turn orders I don't have any modifications. The only thing is I'd name the new city Dim Sum and set it's first build to worker.

	30-10-2003 05:56									#170
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I've been thinking about Buffet's 10 spt chances and our worker situation, and I think we should keep building the worker in Dim Sum (although we'll waste a turn of production there, as the city only grows in 6 turns due to the timing of the cattle irrigation). Buffet has a chance at 10spt now if we let it grow to pop 5 without building a worker; all it has to do currently is get one more pop working a 2-shield tile (available most of the time in the form of the furs forest). The spear being produced in Buffet currently can garrison the town from unhappiness, and the next spear will be in time to escort the new settler.
On the other hand, Dim Sum doesn't have anything to gain from pop 2. Working the cow makes for a perfect 5-turn cycle for both growth and worker building (once the cow is irrigated) and the third commerce that could be gained from working a second tile would be corrupted away. And since growth cannot move faster, there's no point in production doing so. Unless we want to invest in bringing this city to size 3, there's really no point in trying to keep it above size 1. And the waste of a turn of production here would be much less total shield loss than if we used 8spt to build a 2-turn worker in Buffet.

1830 BC:
-New spear in Buffet to be named "Spork" and forted
-Waiter W
-Fatty S
-Fat Bastard fortifies
-Gourmand E
-Busboy S
-Big Eater ? Either E, and then S next turn, or N to start heading up toward Fatty's area.

BTW, the mil advisor says there's an Avar tribe near Egg Roll, but with so much unsettled land in different directions, there's no way to tell where they are. We'll just have to defend if they come after us.

	31-10-2003 08:52									#171
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1790 BC:
-Farmer SW-S to the cattle
-Chow Mein switch build to temple and then Waiter S to the hut; Chow can switch back to the settler afterwards
-Fatty S. It looks like the land curves back E into the lake/bay further S, so let's head S for now and follow the coast
-Fat Bastard S. Thinking over it, I don't think anyone is coming after us anytime soon (no one even knows where we are yet ), so let's explore some
-Big Eater S. I think we should do this to see if we can find a coastline to the S; if you look at the tile S-S-SW of BE's current position, it looks like coast, though it should be sea if there was nothing out there. So let's see if there is.
-Busboy: If damaged, move SW to the hill so he can fortify without risking disease. If not damaged, move S. If killed, skip turn.
-Gourmand SE. See if we can spot more of the distant coastline. He can always move S after this.
-Move new Chow Mein citizen to the lake. We can't get the settler any faster without losing growth, so let's just get some commerce while we can.
-Change Buffet build to worker?

	03-11-2003 00:53									#172
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1750 BC proposal:
-Hayseed roads
-Farmer irrigates
-Waiter W
-Fatty S (Can move W next turn)
-Gourmand S (Can move E next turn and explore more overall than SE-SE)
-Busboy S (Perhaps the river leads to MAST? It would be good to scout their future territory before they claim it.)
-Fat Bastard S
-Big Eater NE
-New Buffet citizen's location is uncertain; move to a reg river grass, as we don't need production but can always use food and commerce.
-Reduce science slider to 90%? Civ reported 3 turns till this turn. We'll lose either 2 or 4 beakers compared to the game's calculations (1 or 2 bp lost per turn on the last 2 turns) because of Chow building the settler, but on the other hand, we should gain at least 2 beakers from Buffet compared to the game's calculations (perhaps 3 if it works the furs next turn). I think we should lower it; we can always raise it back turn after this if need be.



Also, what should we be doing with Big Eater long-term? Should he return to stay at his current position in the hopes of making contact like Lux-Vox in the PTWDG? It's a small chance, but Fatty may be able to scout the area N of BE so long as it really is a lake that Fatty is following the coast of.

Edit: Also, Dim Sum is still building a worker which will waste one turn of production. After this, it can settle into a cycle, growing to pop 2 and building a worker at the same time every 5 turns. However, the same cycle could be done if it built something else like a reg warrior first; we would be down a potential worker though. Opinions?

	04-11-2003 07:02									#173
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There's a problem: Last turn a Chow citizen from a bonus grass rather than from the forest was moved to the lake. As a result, Chow only has 4 food this turn, not enough to grow this turn. We're going to have to divert as much food as we can elsewhere for these two turns while we get it back on the 2-turn growth plan; and we may have to build something like a reg warrior to get it on track for 4-turn settlers. (That, or another 5-turn settler would work too.) Though for now, I agree with Rhoth we should build another worker in Chow.

Here's what I suggest for this turn: Chow works the cattle, lake, two non-river bonus grasses and the plain. Buffet switches from the non-river bonus grass it's working to the wheat; it doesn't need all the shields this turn and the extra wheat food will soften the blow to growth from working the furs later on for 10 spt.

	04-11-2003 08:15									#174
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My proposal for 1710 BC:
-Waiter attacks the barb camp S
-Fatty W to gain more sight on the hill
-Fat Bastard SE to uncover more there, then probably S next turn (south this turn wouldn't cut into the fog as much)
-Big Eater: N to help Fatty explore that area, or back SW and fort to see if we can get a Vox-like contact across the coast? I lean towards N, but there's a slim chance somewhere is over there.
-Busboy S
-Gourmand E
-Buffet citizen on wheat switches to the mine SW to achive 10 spt. Production switch to warrior; let's pump some vet Military Policers out. They can always be upgraded to swords and Med Infs later once MP is out of use.
-Chow Mein works cattle, the bonus grass E, and the lake. Switch build to worker. (We really need more workers...)
-New Egg Roll citizen should work the bonus grass N of the city; if not, move him there.
-Edit: And check the slider for the optimum gpt available with 1 turn remaining on Math

Last edited by Kloreep on 04-11-2003 at 08:33

	04-11-2003 08:17									#175
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Just finished taking a look and I don't really have any problems with the turns. I would have sent Busboy W, but S isn't bad either. I'd probably send Big Eater back north. The chances of that area being another continent are very slim.

	04-11-2003 10:10									#176
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I figure Busboy should follow the river, which might lead to MAST. But we could move west if you want.

Also, the settler will be built next turn, as will a new spear in Buffet. Forgot to add that to the plans above. I think the next city should be either SE-E of Buffet (ol' site 2) or on the furs NE-NE-NE of Buffet. Either way we can get those last two bonus grasses worked by a city, and get 4 or 5 spt for some decent military production. SE-E only has one corruption up to size 6, which appears at 5 spt. NE-NE-NE's first corruption appears a little earlier, at 4 spt, but would actually produce more than SE-E at size 2 because the furs push past the corruption there and to 5 spt. At size 3 they are even again, and the furs site eventually develops a second corrupted shield at 10 spt, but again, this is compensated for by the extra shield we'll have on the city tile by settling on the furs.

Either site seems good... I think we should look at where we want our other cities to go and decide based on that. I think we should go to OCP as we expand past our currently tight core, but I don't have any specifics thought up and it's too late for me to do so.

Edit: This turn, let's move the settler and the new spear in Buffet to the SE-E site. This will allow this city to be founded quickly if we go for it, and the furs site can be reached just as quickly through this route as through alternatives if we go for that.

	04-11-2003 10:19									#177
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As to city placement, I'd like to start expanding a bit outward toward the horses and the luxuries over there, as well as south toward all those food tiles and the "chokepoint".

	05-11-2003 23:41									#178
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Ok, started playing through the turn, with two important points:

Fatty found another hut
Gourmand has met the LATIN LOVERS! Time to get our diplomacy in gear again!

	06-11-2003 04:35									#179
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* Kloreep slaps ZargonX around a bit with a large trout

We need a move report.

Edit: Uh-oh, Zargon has Conquests. Methinks we may not know what moves were made for a while. j/k

Last edited by Kloreep on 06-11-2003 at 04:44

	06-11-2003 05:12									#180
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Sharpe and I are considering moving Gourmand E. Hopefully Zargon did this and if he didn't, the damage hopefully wouldn't be too much.