29-10-2003 12:40									#241
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I don't think they do.

	29-10-2003 15:19									#242
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They definitely do not heal on Galleys. This subject came up in the last few months when we were exploring our own continent with the Galleys.

Although trying to sabotage their Iron supply is likely to be a short-term plan (ie they will likely kill the units there eventually), remember that if they do so, the entire time they do not have Iron they can be building Spearmen ready for upgrade to Pikes - their resources are limited and they can't rushbuild, but they can certainly upgrade. So, if this works and they get their Iron hooked up before the main attack on Catcho, they could build 3 Spears upgraded to Pikes in the same time they can outright build 2 Pikes. Nasty.

However the fact that sending an NM means a smaller chance of a GCA Horseman victory than in ANY other individual battle to date may mean we could hold off for a few turns, by which time they would be too late to reconnect the Iron. This could work, but ONLY if we held the Iron for a few turns and not get killed turn 1, when they still have enough time to reconnect their Iron.

	29-10-2003 19:54									#243
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How many ****ing leaders have they gotten? Didn't they use the last one on the Library? Or did they actually build that?

Anyway, considering that they have their iron hooked up and are upgrading pikes and whatnot, I think Trip's plan is good - take our time, and allow our production advantage to help us grind them down.

-Arrian

	29-10-2003 19:57									#244
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I think they've gotten at least three leaders through the game...

	29-10-2003 20:16									#245
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So we're basing this plan on the idea that an NM on a mountain will defeat a GCA horse? We're so screwed

	29-10-2003 21:51									#246
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We won't be forted, and they will have 6 horse to kill us with.

They can do the same thing when we sit at Alga 1-1 for those turns. Only our defense will be lower.

An elite Horse has only a 10% shot at victory.

We have a much better chance at killing Horses with them attacking us on that mountain than we do marching down to Catchopolis.

	29-10-2003 21:53									#247
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither and we don't have a 4/4 merc in position to send.

We have four new 4/4 NMs at Algalord 2, do we not? An NM and MI can be picked up there and dropped off on the 3rd turn from now (load, move, land).

	29-10-2003 22:12									#248
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quote: Originally posted by Trip They can do the same thing when we sit at Alga 1-1 for those turns. Only our defense will be lower. An elite Horse has only a 10% shot at victory. We have a much better chance at killing Horses with them attacking us on that mountain than we do marching down to Catchopolis.

A 10 Percent chance of killing us? Yep. We're screwed.


When .0000001 is doable, 10 percent is effortless.

	29-10-2003 22:56									#249
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon A 10 Percent chance of killing us? Yep. We're screwed. When .0000001 is doable, 10 percent is effortless.

Then why are we even fighting?

	30-10-2003 01:01									#250
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Is that pike army confirmed, or an educated guess? Without it, I take it we would hurry the plan along a few more turns... maybe worth it to let CFC investigate for us?

DeepO

	30-10-2003 01:57									#251
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Educated Guess, considering running a Defensive war.

E_T

	30-10-2003 17:21									#252
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so... any chance of getting confirmation then?

DeepO

	31-10-2003 06:49									#253
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No, no chance of it this turn, we'd have to ask CFC to investigate for us on the next one.

	03-11-2003 08:44									#254
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The Pike Army is definitely there as confirmed by reconaissance from last turn.

	03-11-2003 08:45									#255
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Image of the planned attack on Catchopolis:



For this attack we should have 17 MIs, 10 Horsemen, 10 NMs and 12/13 Catapults. They will march down the hills (roads being added on the neutral tiles, possibly with a fort city added) and then bombard Catchopolis from the hill tile 7 of it until the population is reduced to at least size 6 (and hopefully some other damage).

	03-11-2003 09:12									#256
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What would we do of GWT gave GCA life by gifting them a city?

	03-11-2003 09:13									#257
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Not much we could do aside from assume GWT to be our enemies from then on.

	03-11-2003 10:36									#258
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Just tossing up a random idea...

Any thought done to bypassing Catchopolis.
Chase down some of the smaller cities. Forcing them to move troops in to defend them or abandon them.
It is certainly demoralising to start losing cities all throughout your empire.

	03-11-2003 10:46									#259
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Not a particularly good idea.

We eventually have to take Catchopolis and their army there anyways, why not do it now and save ourselves time and resources? With a hearty cash reserve they can hold out in Catchopolis with all of their army for a very very long time while we go trapsing around the rest of the landscape for 20 turns. In the end we have to face the same army that had been sitting there the entire time, only we can't start settling the land for our own purposes and we have to continue military production spending at home instead of improving infrastructure and continuing our REX.

	04-11-2003 02:39									#260
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They could stick some pikes, or even the pike army on the hill "7" from Catch, forcing us to take down pikeman across a river up a hill (if fortified, that would be a 100% defense bonus, right?). And that's before we even get to the city.

Therefore, perhaps we should shift that invasion route over to the west, moving due south from where the worker is in that screenshot you posted, Trip. That way, we enter their territory 778 of Catch. They *could* force us back onto your planned path by putting some units on the mountain 77 of Catch, but that's fine, since we could then just go back to your route by moving "3" onto the hill 8 of Catch. But if they don't block the mountain, we can move onto it, and the next turn we can either move onto the hill 7 of Catch or due south again, onto the forest tile 4 of Catch.

Do you see what I'm saying? I fear I may have explained it badly.

-Arrian

	04-11-2003 03:09									#261
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian They could stick some pikes, or even the pike army on the hill "7" from Catch, forcing us to take down pikeman across a river up a hill (if fortified, that would be a 100% defense bonus, right?). And that's before we even get to the city.

If they do it's not really a problem the way I see it.

After all, the real goal is to kill all of their units (since they basically have no production capability now), and if they move units to Catchopolis 7 we have a better chance of killing them there than we do in Catchopolis. We have to kill the units either way, and we're not going to be pausing to heal either. If we get to kill them sooner, outside of the city where they won't heal and with a lower defensive bonus all the better for us.

Unless I'm missing something.

	04-11-2003 09:20									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Just tossing up a random idea... Any thought done to bypassing Catchopolis. Chase down some of the smaller cities. Forcing them to move troops in to defend them or abandon them. It is certainly demoralising to start losing cities all throughout your empire.

Agreed with Trip, don't think we should bypass Catchopolis. On your idea on chasing down smaller cities, we can get Server Fire. But Dun is out of the way and BoP is probably heavily defended. The cities West of BoP are not accessible, unless we get CFC to go after them. If we do that, we will however lose the capability of CFC to conduct intelligence for us - which is very important as we want to know what units are defending in Catchpolis before we go ahead with the final assuault.

Trip, on the proposed movement route, i would suggest spending one more turn, by going SW into the hills tile instead of S into the Plain Tile. The Plain tile is open to GCA Horsemen attack. Following the hill tile, it's hill, mountain, hill (or hill, hill, hill) tile all the way to Catchopolis, hence maximising terrain protection.

	04-11-2003 09:33									#263
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I imagine Trip ahs thought of this, but I cannot see a reason not to do this, rush. Any clarifications why not this path, Tripster?

And yes - if we take Catch we take their best city, cut off Server Fire (which is undefended right now anyway), and essentially break their back. Even if somehow they survived in their remaining cities, we deprive them of the GL and it gives us room to expand - one of the two main reasons for the war.

	04-11-2003 11:02									#264
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BoP will not be heavily defended; at least not anywhere near what Catch will have if we only target that city. GCA will have to decide to either split it's defense forces or abandon BoP if we went for the split route. I think it is a good idea. It is one I brought up a long while back and Trip didn't like it then...

	04-11-2003 13:18									#265
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When i said heavily defended, I actually mean - it will be defended by 2 or 3 units, maybe a Sword and 2 Spears. To be successful in capturing BoP, we probably need to divert about 5 units (3MIs, 2 NMs for example). This will weaken our assault force at Catchopolis.

Also, if GCA has built a road at the Forest tile West of Catchopolis. they can easily send Horsemen to ambush our BoP attack force.

I support Trip decision. With the surprising good luck GCA is getting in it's combat, it would be better for us to consolidate our forces at one location.

	04-11-2003 19:01									#266
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quote: We have to kill the units either way, and we're not going to be pausing to heal either. If we get to kill them sooner, outside of the city where they won't heal and with a lower defensive bonus all the better for us.

Good point. Ok then.

-Arrian

	06-11-2003 22:18									#267
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This turn (turn 131) - All of the worker move to Catch 8-8-7. The Settler Lux will be 2 tiles away from this point. MoW will provide Escort for the workers.

turn 132- A Native and the Slave build a road at Catch 8-8-7. The Settler Lux moves to that tile and builds the Fort City. The other Native Worker moves to Catch 8-7 (with Escort).

turn 133 - The Native at Catch 8-7 starts Roading. The other 2 move to the same tile.

turn 134 - the other native helps to finish the road (road built). The slave moves to Catch 7 (with Escort).

turn 135 - the Slave starts to road, the 2 natives move to same spot. ??seige of Catch??

Turn 136 - the 2 natives finish the road that the slave started. Seige of Catch

turn 137 - Native that is built in Lux on turn 131 reaches the other War worker Corp. Catch Captured or Abandoned.

MoI E_T

	06-11-2003 23:20									#268
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Okay, the plan has been altered some.

I want to move the main army down the hills just west of Catchopolis starting with the hill where the slave Worker is currently at. We can build a road on that hill tile and procede forward with all of the hill defensive bonus. It will delay us another turn from heading south from where we are but it should pay off to do that since we won't have to risk losing units (as much anyways).

Also, I do not want a fort city. It will have to be defended and will give us minimal benefit.

Unfortunately the road on the hill won't be able to be completed in one turn so you'll have to find something to do with the Workers.

	07-11-2003 00:14									#269
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Ok Trip.

Trip: Do you want to hang onto a settler for offensive purposes?

ET: We need a plan for thoose three settlers we have in the area. Let us know where you intend each one to go.

	07-11-2003 00:26									#270
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Re: offensive Settler. I don't know. All I know is that I don't want to have to defend something besides our main stack. Especially something that won't help us much.