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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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Monster chat with CFC about the alliance and border issues:
quote:
Start of #isdgfamtalks buffer: Wed Dec 24 00:49:48 2003
[21:55] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks
[21:55] * Topic is '4Greetings! 2 Please "1/notify (nick)"2 us
when you enter this channel so that we know you are here. We
will respond as soon as we can. Thanks.  '
[21:55] * Set by BigFree on Sun Oct 12 01:42:39
[21:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen
[21:55] [MasterZen] hey
[21:55] [GBM_Gone] Boots, you here?
[21:55] [GBM_Gone] hi
[21:55] * Boots_afk is now known as Bootstoots
[21:55] [Bootstoots] back
[21:55] * GBM_Gone is now known as GBM
[21:55] [GBM] ok
[21:55] [GBM] well that means we have two officials here
[21:55] [Trip] whole crowd is here
[21:56] * Octavian_X munches on some ice cream...
[21:56] * GBM ate all the doughnuts
[21:56] [Bootstoots] and our third official, Oct, the official ice cream and
doughnut eater 
[21:56] [Bootstoots] well, he just lost the doughnut eating job then
[21:56] [Octavian_X] It's a nice job.
[21:56] [GBM] our official doughnut disposal unit
[21:56] [Bootstoots] lol
[21:57] [Octavian_X] (in other words, I'm useless)
[21:57] [Bootstoots] he also mans our catapult "Doughnut Thrower" 
[21:57] [Octavian_X] (kinda like Trip. )
[21:57] [GBM] hehe
[21:57] [Bootstoots] lol
[21:57] [MasterZen] actually Trip is quite useful to us now :P
[21:58] [MasterZen] or at least we make him think so
[21:58] [GBM] well, we have Prezzy, Vice Prezzy, and our DDU here
[21:58] [GBM] hehe
[21:59] [Octavian_X] That's the best way to keep him from touching anything
important.
[21:59] [GBM] I haven't seen Domestic in ages, same with Foreign, and Science
is out-of-pocket for a few weeks
[21:59] [Trip] I'm the highest ranking official here you peon
[21:59] [GBM] who else is left running this place?
[21:59] [Octavian_X] You just keep telling yourself that.
[21:59] [GBM] lol
[21:59] [Trip] I will, because it's true
[21:59] [Bootstoots] lol
[22:00] [Bootstoots] anyway, are we ready to start the chat?
[22:00] * TogasCooking is now known as TogasDinner
[22:00] * TogasDinner is now known as Togas
[22:00] [Togas]
[22:00] [Togas] I'm eating right now, but I'm still here
[22:00] [MasterZen] I'm ready
[22:00] [GBM] why not, our entire government is here
[22:00] [Trip] government, or team?
[22:00] [GBM] both
[22:00] [Togas] we may want to move this chat to a secure channel
[22:00] [Octavian_X] I'll just disappear into the shadow now...
[22:00] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +k secured
[22:00] [Trip] or
[22:00] [MasterZen] or just put a password
[22:00] [GBM] alrighty...
[22:00] [Trip] we can just do that
[22:00] [Trip] as WB did
[22:00] [Bootstoots] ok
[22:01] [Octavian_X] But screwing around in #isdgfam is so much more fun!
[22:01] [GBM] lol
[22:01] [WhiteBandit] you seem to come in there often enough :P
[22:02] [Octavian_X] You know you wanted me in there.
[22:02] * Trip slaps MasterZen around a bit with the Nation of Islam
[22:02] * MasterZen slaps Trip around a bit with a large trout
[22:03] [GBM] hahaha
[22:03] [MasterZen] damn, don't have my custom slaps in this PC :P
[22:03] [Trip] muahaha
[22:04] [GBM] now, was the topic of this meet borders or alliances?
[22:04] [GBM] or science research?
[22:04] [Octavian_X] or doughnut/taco exchange?
[22:04] [GBM] or some mutilated combination of all three?
[22:04] [GBM] I'll have the tacos, thanks
[22:05] [MasterZen] me too
[22:05] [Bootstoots] what about the ice cream?
[22:05] [Octavian_X] I just found some doughnuts.
[22:05] [GBM] give it to the DDU
[22:05] [Octavian_X] Well, I'll stop impeding in on something official before I
get in trouble again. I need to make it look like I'm running the MZO C3C DG,
anyway...
[22:06] [GBM] lol
[22:06] [MasterZen] well, shall we start?
[22:06] [GBM] yes
[22:06] [Bootstoots] yeah
[22:06] [MasterZen] ok, let's bring up the Alliance proposal first
[22:06] [GBM] What was Poly's response to our proposal?
[22:07] [MasterZen] well pretty much the same as what we mentioned yesterday
[22:07] [GBM] ok
[22:07] [MasterZen] we'd like the military pact written in a way in which we
are not dragged into the other's offensive wars
[22:07] [GBM] yes
[22:08] [MasterZen] I believe our proposal had that written in nicely perhaps
we can use that part from ours
[22:08] [Bootstoots] what if it was required that both parties agree to all
offensive wars, and agree to jointly wage them after the agreement had been
made?
[22:08] [GBM] We would like to add your tech proposal, but have full tech
sharing, no 125% thingumy
[22:08] [GBM] that is an option
[22:08] * MasterZen opens both proposals
[22:09] [MasterZen] ok this is how our version is written:
[22:09] [MasterZen] vShould either nation be invaded by an outside party, the
other nation is bound by
[22:09] [MasterZen] this treaty to declare war on the attacker and remain at
war until the alliance
[22:09] [MasterZen] has negotiated a peace settlement or until the attacker no
longer poses a direct
[22:09] [MasterZen] threat to the ally.
[22:09] [MasterZen] this part means that if anyone invades either of our
homeland, the other MUST come to the other's defense
[22:10] [MasterZen] This alliance is defensive only. The allies may agree to
jointly attack a third
[22:10] [MasterZen] party, but if one ally decides to attack a third party and
thereby start a war,
[22:10] [MasterZen] the other is not obligated to also declare war, even if the
third party later
[22:10] [MasterZen] attacks the ally.
[22:10] [GBM] that is a questionable one
[22:10] [Bootstoots] but why not just forbid all unilateral offensive wars?
[22:10] [MasterZen] well, it says that
[22:11] [MasterZen] it's pretty clear that one nation is not obliged to declare
war if the other attacks someone else
[22:11] [GBM] how about a clause that states offensive wars are to be taken on
the merits of the situation, and organised when needed
[22:12] [GBM] so nothing set in concrete, it just has to be discussed first,
and planned
[22:12] [Bootstoots] yes, but I was thinking that it might be better to forbid
wars waged by one party only, rather than allow them but make participation
for the other side optional
[22:12] [MasterZen] but it says so
[22:12] [MasterZen] 4The allies may agree to jointly attack a third
[22:12] [MasterZen] party, but if one ally decides to attack a third party and
thereby start a war,
[22:12] [MasterZen] the other is not obligated to also declare war
[22:12] [MasterZen] that means we can ally if we so wish against someone, but
we can't force the other to do so
[22:13] [Bootstoots] ok
[22:13] [MasterZen] Boots, do you have a copy of our proposal?
[22:13] [GBM] ok, but add that the other is obliged to not impede the war
process
[22:13] * Togas opens up his notepad to add proposed text.
[22:14] [MasterZen] GBM: agreed, perhaps that can be covered by the NAP part?
[22:14] [GBM] so the other cannot trade, give money, etc, to a person who their
ally is at war with
[22:14] [GBM] I think it goes in the offensive war section
[22:15] [MasterZen] but well, look at it this way:
[22:15] [Togas] That's covered in section I
[22:15] [Togas] I Full Diplomatic Cooperation (United Front)
[22:15] [Togas] Neither nation shall help the enemy of the other in any way.
[22:15] [Togas] Neither nation shall plot against the other with any foreign
nation.
[22:15] [MasterZen] ah yes
[22:15] [GBM] no need to repeat it then
[22:16] [MasterZen] ok, agreed with this part then?
[22:16] [GBM] or maybe just put the 'obliged to not impede to process' to make
it clear
[22:16] [Togas] I'll add that in.
[22:16] [GBM] then it is agreed
[22:16] [Togas] 
[22:17] [GBM] next on the agenda - tech co-operation
[22:17] [MasterZen] okay
[22:17] [GBM] lets move through your pact, but add parts of ours as we go
[22:17] [MasterZen] ok
[22:18] [GBM] just a sec
[22:18] [Togas] 4 II Tech Cooperation
[22:18] [GBM] we propose this:
[22:18] [GBM] 4) We agree to support each other in technology research, and a
full tech parity shall
[22:18] [GBM] be maintained between our nations. Also, we agree to provide
loans and other support
[22:18] [GBM] to the other party if needed by that party and if possible.
[22:20] [Togas] we're working up the language to our proposal. We're going to
throw aside our original proposal, but we have a new one
[22:20] [GBM] how about we add your first three clauses, then the above
[22:20] [Togas] right now we're getting it clarified in another chat window
[22:20] [GBM] ok
[22:20] [Togas] agreed to the first 3 clauses.
[22:21] [GBM] so, will it be complete parity, or parity via trade?
[22:22] [Togas] we have a shared-research solution
[22:22] [Togas] just trying to work out the details now
[22:22] [Togas] basicly, we both research a tech by pooling commerce, and then
the tech is gifted to the other party
[22:23] [GBM] so, we can either research two techs then swap, or one fund the
other, then share
[22:23] [MasterZen] in other words, fully combine our two economies
[22:23] [GBM] yes
[22:23] [MasterZen] for example:
[22:23] [MasterZen] CFC does 40-turn reasearch and gives us all its gpt. We
reseach faster then give you the tech once we're done
[22:24] [MasterZen] say, you start sending us gpt and we get Gunpowder real
quick. After we get it, we give it to CFC
[22:24] [Togas] we'd have to determine how much GPT on a per-tech basis.
[22:24] [GBM] though it wouldn't be an official gpt deal, just gift an amount
of gold every turn
[22:25] [GBM] just thinking how to write this
[22:25] [Togas] yeah, we're also trying to think of how to write it up...
[22:25] [MasterZen] the more you send the quicker we get it
[22:26] [Togas] We crank up the science, pool the commerce of both nations into
one research monster, and then both of us get the techs as they quickly come
out.
[22:27] [Togas] and every 40 turns we both get a "bonus" tech as well.
[22:27] [GBM] yes
[22:30] [MasterZen] we'd also like some kind of guarantee that the team who is
doing the gpt is giving a significant amount and not hording gold for
themselves
[22:30] [GBM] I've got that in the clause I am writing
[22:30] [MasterZen] this can be done either by agreeing on a set amount for
each tech
[22:31] [GBM] beyond your first three clauses, this:
[22:31] [GBM] The two parties of this pact are to combine their economic power
to enable the best possible research rate. Both nations will show full
disclosure on their economic situation, and act accordingly. Any technology
researched or received is to be shared between the nations.
[22:32] [MasterZen] there is a problem with the "received" part
[22:32] [MasterZen] if a foreign team asks for a no-trade clause we cannot
violate that
[22:32] [GBM] hmm...
[22:33] [GBM] The two parties of this pact are to combine their economic power
to enable the best possible research rate. Both nations will show full
disclosure on their economic situation, and act accordingly. Any technology
researched or received is to be shared between the nations of this pact. If
other treaties disallow such a procedure, fitting compensation is to be given.
[22:33] [MasterZen] "fitting compensation"?
[22:33] [GBM] that is a hard bit
[22:35] [GBM] say you receive nationalism, but cannot trade with us, you should
help us receive nationalism on our own (e.g. trade or research)
[22:35] [GBM] and if we receive a tach, we'd do the same
[22:36] [Togas] ultimately, I think both of us may end up having to buy the
tech from the 3rd party
[22:36] [GBM] yes
[22:36] [Togas] that's generally how No-trades work ... would allow CGN to sell
it to both of us, individually.
[22:36] [GBM] I will rewrite the last sentence then
[22:38] [GBM] If a no-trade treaty disallows sharing of the received tech in
question, every possible effort is to be made to continue technology parity
throughout the alliance.
[22:38] [GBM] like the ring of that?
[22:40] [Togas] not sure what that would mean
[22:40] [GBM] that could be exploited though, if one party in the alliance
demands a no-trade when recieving tech
[22:41] [Togas] seriously, if one party does that, the other party ought to
just buy the tech from the 3rd party
[22:41] [GBM] yes
[22:41] [GBM] another revision!
[22:42] [MasterZen] I honestly don't see what this bit is so important. When
dealing with other civs, each team makes its own deals, simple as that, we
can't have this treaty overlapping or interfereing with what goes on with
others because this will only piss them off, plus it will give away the fact
that we are allied something that we do not want to reveal. This alliance is
secret.
[22:42] [GBM] yes, what I was thinking
[22:43] [GBM] we should add that this alliance is secret at the top then
[22:43] [MasterZen] yes
[22:43] [Togas] I'll add that...
[22:43] [GBM] this means the final science clause it this:
[22:44] [GBM] Both nations pledge to share with the other what tech is being
researched and what tech is planned to be researched.
[22:44] [GBM] Both nations will faithfully attempt to never cross-research or
compete by researching the same tech.
[22:44] [GBM] Both nations prioritize trades with each other, prefering trades
with an ally than with another party.
[22:44] [GBM] The two parties of this pact are to combine their economic power
to enable the best possible research rate. Both nations will show full
disclosure on their economic situation, and act accordingly. Any technology
researched or received is to be shared between the nations of this pact. If a
no-trade treaty disallows sharing of the received tech in question, the
technology cannot be shared.
[22:45] [Togas] that should work. I've worked out some details for how we'll
divide up the research, just waiting for approval from the boss
[22:45] [GBM] ok
[22:45] [GBM] if they are specific details, then leave them out for a later
agreement
[22:45] [Togas] that's fine with me
[22:46] [GBM] we want this alliance to be as clean and uncluttered as possible
[22:46] [Togas] we can meet again and define them later
[22:46] [GBM] yes. On to III?
[22:46] [MasterZen] sure
[22:46] [Togas]
[22:47] [GBM] Right of Passage
[22:47] [Togas] 4 III Right of Passage
[22:47] [GBM] I like your proposal, but something needs to be added of land
units
[22:47] [GBM] thanks, togas
[22:47] [MasterZen] what do you want to add?
[22:49] [GBM] something like "No offensive units of one party are to enter the
territory of another party without prior notification.
[22:49] [Togas] I thought we had something like that in there already....
[22:49] [GBM] ok
[22:49] [Togas] section V
[22:49] [MasterZen] plus, no defensive units should be allowed either :P
[22:50] [GBM] well, they technically have an offense value
[22:50] [GBM] it was in the NAP
[22:50] [GBM] move it to the RoP, I say
[22:50] [MasterZen] yes, it's in the NAP part
[22:50] [Octavian_X] Hey, I used that excuse to get off an investigation charge
in the second SPDG at CFC...
[22:50] [MasterZen] 4Neither nation shall enter the land inside the cultural
borders, or any mutually
[22:50] [MasterZen] agreed on borders, of the other without prior approval
[22:51] [GBM] lol
[22:51] [GBM] move that to the RoP, then it should be fine
[22:52] [GBM] to IV
[22:52] [MasterZen] k
[22:52] [Togas] 4 IV Homeland protection doctrime
[22:53] [Togas] doctrine
[22:53] [GBM] Seems perfectly fine to me
[22:53] [Togas] cool
[22:54] [GBM] move to V
[22:54] [Togas] 4 V Non-Agression Pact
[22:55] [GBM] seems fine again, just moving the 1st clause to the RoP section
[22:55] [MasterZen] sounds good to me
[22:55] [Togas] not a problem
[22:55] [GBM] to VI!!
[22:55] [Togas] 4 VI Shared Intelligence
[22:56] [GBM] Again, no real issue here
[22:56] [MasterZen] yap, sounds fine
[22:56] [Togas]
[22:56] [GBM] to VII!
[22:56] [Togas] 4 VII Military Defense Pact
[22:57] [GBM] we talked about this at the top, didn't we?
[22:57] [MasterZen] pretty much
[22:58] [Togas] any thoughts about this section or is it pretty solid?
[22:58] [GBM] just add in again that each member is obliged not to impede on
another member's war
[22:59] [Togas] np
[23:00] [Togas] we good?
[23:00] [GBM] just a sec
[23:00] [GBM] ok
[23:00] [GBM] to VIII
[23:00] [Togas] 4 VIII Separation of Agreements
[23:00] [Togas] this section is mostly just legal jargon/fineprint
[23:00] [GBM] yes
[23:01] [GBM] though add that no outside treaty may contradict the alliance
[23:01] [GBM] without agreement from both parties
[23:02] [Togas] that sounds like a good idea
[23:02] [MasterZen]
[23:03] [GBM] now to IX, the controversial one...
[23:03] [Togas] 4 IX Termination of Agreement
[23:03] [GBM] I dont like 1)
[23:04] [GBM] It may be terminated if both parties agree it to be terminated,
though
[23:04] * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[23:04] * Octavian_X has joined #isdgfamtalks
[23:04] [Togas] not sure how that would work
[23:04] [GBM] if the parties in this agreement are the only remaining members
of the game, the treaty must be renegotiated.
[23:06] [Togas] that can be added, but it still leaves us with the messy, but
possible situation where both of us have a disagreement that can't be resolved
[23:06] [GBM] such as?
[23:06] [Togas] some sort of disagreement about how to interpret our
obligations, or some future issue none of us forsaw when we wrote it up
[23:06] [GBM] ok
[23:07] [Togas] I mean, it's not impossible to break a treaty, but I'd much
rather we agree on a process where we talk first and then let our teams vote
on it.
[23:07] [GBM] just a sec
[23:09] [Octavian_X] Hey, GBM, just in case you didn't know, the last save you
sent to GWT was corrupt.
[23:09] [Octavian_X] According to GWt, that is.
[23:09] [GBM] yes, I resent it
[23:09] [GBM] and it was fine
[23:10] [Octavian_X] just checking.
[23:10] [GBM] thaks
[23:10] [GBM] thanks
[23:11] [GBM] how about this:
[23:11] [GBM] This treaty may not be changed without agreement from both
parties, via popular vote.
[23:11] [GBM] This agreement shall not end unless both parties decide that it
should end. This is to be decided via popular vote.
[23:12] [GBM] I'll give it more legal wording, though
[23:13] [Togas] but what if one teams votes for it to end, and the other
doesn't?
[23:14] [Octavian_X] It should stay in effect.
[23:14] [GBM] yes
[23:14] [Octavian_X] A mutual alliance should be ended mutally.
[23:14] [Togas] I mean, ultimately, if one side doesn't want it anymore it's
silly to force the other to abide by it. The team that doesn't want it will
just break it and ruin relations entirely.
[23:14] [GBM] otherwise this treaty will just be paper, if anyone can withdraw
at any time
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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Part II:
quote:
[23:15] [Togas] I agree, no one should be allowed to just withdraw
[23:15] [Togas] there should be some steps to follow through, taken in good
faith.
[23:15] [GBM] renegotiation of the treaty must take place, though
[23:15] [Togas] but I see this thing like a marriage ... if it can't be worked
out by both parties, and one wants a divorce, you ultimately have to grant it
or end up living in a hellish relationship
[23:16] [Trip] perhaps there can be a call on one side for an "emergency
renegotiation" session
[23:16] [GBM] yes
[23:17] [Trip] this can be a 1 or 2 week period where the two teams try to work
out the issue and if necessary, reword the agreement
[23:17] [GBM] well, you can renegotiate at any time
[23:17] [Trip] if this fails, then the alliance is to be terminated
[23:17] [Togas] not bad
[23:17] [Trip] this way it prevents a team from immediately withdrawing from
the alliance
[23:17] [GBM] just we cannot renegotiate the central agreement, that is
No-agression
[23:17] [Trip] but gives the other team notification that if things are not
worked out, then it will end
[23:18] [Togas] maybe if either side votes and declares "no confidence" in the
alliance, then we enter into a 10 day automatic re-negotiation phase
[23:18] [GBM] any side can enter renegotiation at any time, no need for
declarations, 10-day phases, or whatever
[23:18] [MasterZen] we can set aside time before we agree to terminate it and
when it actually does terminate
[23:19] [MasterZen] say after a renegotiation phase if we decide to terminate
it, we give (for example) a 5-10 turn lapse before it actually ends
[23:20] [GBM] well, that would be part of the termination agreement
[23:20] [Togas] I still think we should have an automatic renegotiation before
we end it
[23:20] [Togas] and if we can't solve our differences, it ends
[23:21] [GBM] hmm, it is hard
[23:21] [Togas] BUT before we even get there, it ought to go to a vote
[23:21] [GBM] termination of the agreement is part of renegotiations
[23:21] [MasterZen] the thing is this GBM:
[23:21] [Togas] each of us should be required to poll our team
[23:21] [GBM] we may negotiate to end it
[23:22] [GBM] yes, of course
[23:22] [MasterZen] this treaty also cannot go against our own constitutions
[23:22] [GBM] yes
[23:22] [MasterZen] if our people or your people decide and vote to end it, we
can't force it to go on
[23:22] [Togas] true
[23:22] [GBM] but still, you signed the deal originally, you knew the
implications
[23:23] [MasterZen] yes but there is no time clause in it either
[23:23] * Bootstoots has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:23] [GBM] well, the treaty will end if we are the only two remaining, or if
one of the parties is eliminated
[23:24] [GBM] I'll add those for now, they are obvious
[23:24] [Togas] how about we change #4 to:
[23:24] [Togas] 4) After being informed, this agreement shall terminate in 10
days time if both nations do not agree to a new alliance.
[23:25] [GBM] but if both parties agree to end it, they both want out NOW, not
in 10 days...
[23:25] [Togas] true
[23:25] [Trip] that shoul only apply if 1 party wishes to leave
[23:26] [GBM] Yes, that seems right
[23:26] [MasterZen] sounds good
[23:26] [Togas] good
[23:27] [Trip] immediate termination applies if both parties agree
[23:27] [Togas] I'm adding that
[23:27] [GBM] but if only one party wishes to leave, we must leave the
Non-agression remaining
[23:27] [GBM] otherwise one party can leave, and in 10 days destroy the other
[23:28] [GBM] if somebody held the save 10 days after one party withdraws, they
could declare war the next turn
[23:28] [Togas] that would suck
[23:28] [MasterZen] lol, they'd practically get gang-banged by every other team
who won't tolerate the wait
[23:29] [GBM] hehe
[23:30] [GBM] so, if only one party withdraws, Section V remains until
determined to end in section IX
[23:31] [Togas] that should work
[23:31] [GBM] so I added to V: "If one party withdraws from the agreement, this
section MUST remain until determined in section IX"
[23:32] [Togas] add that to IX?
[23:32] [Togas] oh, I see
[23:32] [Togas] sorry
[23:32] [GBM] k
[23:33] [Togas] that should work
[23:33] [Togas]
[23:33] [GBM] leaving IX as:
[23:33] [GBM] IX
[23:33] [GBM] This treaty will terminate when one of the following is fulfilled:
[23:33] [GBM] A) The two parties in this agreement are the only two parties
remaining in the game
[23:33] [GBM] B) One of the parties is destroyed.
[23:34] [Togas] and the rest of IX?
[23:34] [GBM] oh, and C) Both parties agree to withdraw from the agreement
[23:35] [GBM] plus the 1 party leaving bit...
[23:35] [Togas] got it
[23:35] [GBM] though with the one party leaving, that is covered with
renegotiation
[23:36] [GBM] they could withdraw from all clauses except section V, which they
are obliged to keep
[23:36] [Togas] I'll use my language from the original IX
[23:36] [Togas] and include that clause V remains
[23:38] [GBM] the final IX -
[23:38] [GBM] IX - Termination
[23:38] [GBM] This treaty will terminate when one of the following is fulfilled:
[23:38] [GBM] A) The two parties in this agreement are the only two parties
remaining in the game
[23:38] [GBM] B) One of the parties is destroyed.
[23:38] [GBM] C) Both parties agree to withdraw from the agreement.
[23:38] [GBM] If at any time one party wishes to leave, they may must
renegotiate the clauses in question. They may not renegotiate Section V.
[23:38] [GBM] there's a typo there...
[23:39] [GBM] get rid of the 'may' between they and must
[23:40] [Togas] I have different language for C ... basicly that if one wishes
to leave, there is a 10 day period for renegotiations. Then if nothing is
worked out, both parties would still be bound by Article V
[23:40] [GBM] ok
[23:41] [GBM] well, I'll quickly format the final proposal I have compiled, and
send it your way
[23:42] [Togas] ok
[23:44] [GBM] I didn't put things in about votes for approval, or contradicting
the constitutions, that would be covered by our own laws
[23:45] [Togas] true
[23:46] [GBM] got an email I can send it to?
[23:46] [Togas] tom_ogas@yahoo.com
[23:47] [MasterZen] civ@masterzen.net
[23:49] [GBM] ok, sent
[23:50] [GBM] well, there goes 2hrs of intenst discussion...
[23:50] * GBM breathes a sigh of relief
[23:50] [MasterZen] it ended up quite well IMO
[23:50] [GBM] yes, very well
[23:51] [Togas] I'm reviewing it now, but it'll take some time to fully read
and check my notes
[23:51] [GBM] yes, and we'll both want to poll it to our nations
[23:51] [GBM] though I think this should be ratified in a few days
[23:52] [Togas] I think I'd want to clean up the language in two spots, but
that's about it (at least from my initial read)
[23:52] [GBM] some people celebrate christmas here
[23:52] [Togas]
[23:52] [MasterZen] ah yes it's Christmas Eve in Oz now
[23:52] [GBM] yes, we could use a bit more jargon and legal language
[23:53] [GBM] yes...
[23:53] [MasterZen] Togas is a lawyer, he can add some stuff that neither you
nor I will ever understand
[23:53] [GBM] lol
[23:53] [Togas]
[23:53] [GBM] where is the language that needs cleaning?
[23:53] * GBM washes his mouth with soap
[23:53] [GBM] that's better 
[23:54] [Togas] LOL
[23:54] [Togas] I'd like to further define section II to better reflect our
discussion, and also add a bit to Section IX.
[23:55] [GBM] well, I'll see what they are, but I think IX is fine
[23:55] [Togas] I'll write it up now...
[23:56] [GBM] I'll check in every couple of minutes
[23:56] [Togas] instead of the last line:
[23:56] [Togas] If one party notifies the other that they wish to terminate the
alliance, there shall be a
[23:56] [Togas] 10 day period to renegotiate the alliance. If the alliance is
not renegotiated in that time
[23:56] [Togas] the alliance shall end, however Article V shall remain in
effect for both parties.
[23:57] [GBM] that is ok
[23:59] [Togas] I'd like to clarify what we mean by "The two parties of this
pact are to combine their economic power to enable the
[23:59] [Togas] best possible research rate.
[23:59] [GBM] yes, that was badly writted
[00:00] [GBM] *written
[00:01] [GBM] If the treaty is terminated, IX should remain, as that is crucial
to V
[00:02] [GBM] which gives:
[00:02] [GBM] If one party notifies the other that they wish to terminate the
alliance, there shall be a 10 day period to renegotiate the alliance. If the
alliance is not renegotiated in that time the alliance shall end, however
Articles V and IX shall remain in effect for both parties.
[00:02] [Togas] ok
[00:02] [Togas] how about this for II:
[00:02] [Togas] The two parties of this pact are to combine their economic
power to enable the best
[00:02] [Togas] possible research rate. Both nations will show full disclosure
on their economic situation,
[00:02] [Togas] and act accordingly. CFC will contribute a percentage of it's
annual income to fund research for Poly. That percentage shall be determined
by the tech being researched and by the economies of both nations.
[00:02] [Togas] On the turn Poly aquires the tech, it shall be gifted to CFC.
[00:02] [Togas] CFC shall also set 1 scientist to do a 40-turn research
project. As soon as that tech is
[00:02] [Togas] aquired, CFC shall gift it to Poly
[00:03] [GBM] that is too specific
[00:03] [MasterZen] actually I thought it was too vague :P
[00:03] [GBM] lol
[00:04] [Togas] maybe we should just keep it vague and agree to meet and
discuss how we're going to rule the tech world later on
[00:05] [GBM] thats what I was thinking
[00:05] [GBM] discuss the details as they arise
[00:05] [GBM] this needs to be a treaty that can remain unchanged, and still
have the same affect
[00:06] [Togas] what if we made this slight change:
[00:06] [Togas] Any technology researched cooperatively is to be shared between
the nations of this
[00:06] [Togas] pact.
[00:07] [GBM] yes
[00:07] [GBM] though what determines 'researched co-operatively'?
[00:08] [Togas] good. Just make that change to the final paragraph of II
[00:09] [Togas] There's a lot of concern from the curmudegons at Poly that our
team will end up giving all our tech to CFC and that CFC won't research.
[00:09] [GBM] ok
[00:09] [GBM] seems a rightful concern
[00:09] [Togas] we just need to agree on some sort of promise to jointly
research, and (in my opinion) so long as we're working together on research
projects, we should share the results
[00:10] [GBM] actually, that clause you just wrote is good
[00:10] [Togas]
[00:10] [GBM] just had to look at the implications of it, and the forms it can
take
[00:11] [GBM] if we give you money for resarch, that is co-operative
[00:11] [Togas] yep
[00:12] [GBM] I'll put that in
[00:12] [Togas] I think we're OK, then.
[00:12] [GBM] yes
[00:13] [Togas] there shouldn't be any other major issues, but if one of the
consuls has a major beef, we'll let you know.
[00:13] [Togas] however, from my POV, I think this is excellent
[00:13] [GBM] same returned
[00:13] [GBM] yes, I find this an excellent agreement
[00:13] [Togas] let me see what MZ and Trip think
[00:14] [MasterZen] I'm cool with it
[00:14] [GBM] well, it's off to the polls now
[00:14] [Togas] I'm going to post and poll it shortly
[00:14] [Togas] We should have an answer for you probably by this weekend
[00:14] * Octavian_X is now known as Octavian_away
[00:15] [GBM] yes, as people get back from their christmas trips
[00:15] [Togas] Excellent work This has been one of the most pleasant
negotiations I've ever participated in
[00:15] [GBM] same, this was good
[00:16] [Togas] Look forward to working with you in the future
[00:16] [GBM] yes, dealing with you has been great
[00:16] [Togas]
[00:17] [Togas] whew! OK, now excuse me while I relax and watch Raiders of the
Lost Ark
[00:17] [MasterZen] to quote Casablanca "Louis, I think this is the start of a
beautiful friendship"
[00:17] [GBM] lol
[00:18] [WhiteBandit] this is the part where OctX quote Gone With The Wind and
says "Frankly my dear, I don't give a donut."
[00:18] [MasterZen] lol!
[00:19] [GBM] hahaha
[00:23] [Togas] would you like to discuss the border issue tonight?
[00:24] [GBM] a bit
[00:25] [GBM] what has 'poly decided?
[00:25] [MasterZen] well for starters it has been the most hotly debated issue
probably in our entire history... lol
[00:26] [Togas] it's still being debated, but we'd like to see if we can't
create a comprimise and see if the team will accept it.
[00:26] [MasterZen] there was an "unofficial" poll and it was very close
[00:26] [GBM] same, we are really debating it
[00:27] [MasterZen] we are currently starting an offical poll right now
[00:27] [MasterZen] btw, this might be a bit extreme but I want to get it out
of my system:
[00:27] * GBM braces himself...
[00:28] [MasterZen] there is a chance, low chance, that our team might not want
to hand over a chokepoint. Is there anything at all that might be given as
compensation? Like I said it's a small possibility but I would hate to give a
nasty surprise later on after hammering out everything
[00:29] [GBM] That would be... a little dissapointing, to say the least
[00:29] [GBM] that was the fear when you settled PoV
[00:29] [MasterZen] yes I know, it would be rather disappointing for us who
have actually lobbied in favor
[00:29] [MasterZen] (and still are lobbying)
[00:30] [MasterZen] granted, the unofficial poll did pass so I guess that's an
assurance, I don't think people will switch votes
[00:30] [Togas] We personally are in favor of giving up 1 chokepoint. I think
it's fair, but the team itself is struggling with the idea of giving up our
own cities and citizens and sheilds, etc.
[00:30] [Togas] when I say "we" I mean MZ and myself.
[00:30] [MasterZen] and the consuls
[00:30] [GBM] ok
[00:31] [MasterZen] but the people have final word on things too
[00:31] [MasterZen] and with enough votes, they can overrule us
[00:31] [GBM] well, when PoV was built, apparantly you said it was for
protection only. Now that that threat is over...
[00:32] [Togas] It's protection, but it's also production. It's close to our
new core. We plan to palace jump to the south where the land is better.
[00:33] [GBM] either that or nobody holds any chokepoint
[00:33] [Togas] that would mean that neither of us could move ships in or out
of the lake. That would be bad for us both
[00:34] [GBM] yeah
[00:34] [GBM] just digging up a map
[00:34] [Togas] We've argued to the people of Apolyton that our continued
friendship and trust between our nations necessitates that we give up one
chokepoint. Some of them seem to agree, others feel that it's unwise or
unfair for us to have to surrender a city.
[00:34] [MasterZen] one more thing:
[00:35] [MasterZen] should the polls allow us to hand over a chokepoint, we
believe it is best if we hand over Equilibrium rather than BoP, precisely
because of the reasons Togas just outlined
[00:35] [GBM] I see
[00:36] [GBM] that would be better than no chokepoint
[00:36] [MasterZen] actually gives you a better outlet to the ocean than BoP
[00:36] [GBM] yes
[00:36] [MasterZen] we just want BoP for economic reasons
[00:36] [MasterZen] other than that we really wouldn't care which one to keep
[00:37] [GBM] That should work
[00:37] [GBM] it wasn't our original hopes, but an agreement is better than a
disagreement
[00:38] [Togas] What if this:
[00:38] [Togas] CFC builds a new city next to Equi and we build a settler there
and disband it?
[00:39] [Togas] that way the issues about "apolyton citizens and sheilds" etc
will be covered
[00:39] [GBM] you'd have to abando the city before we built ours, though
[00:39] [Togas] so no one can ***** about us surrendering our own people
[00:39] [GBM] exactly
[00:39] [MasterZen] we would abandon Eq in 14 turns
[00:39] [GBM] though that could take a while, unless you rushed the settler
[00:39] [MasterZen] its the time it'll take us to build the settler
[00:40] [GBM] that sounds like a good idea
[00:40] [MasterZen] its not much
[00:40] [GBM] brb
[00:40] [Togas] I think that'll work.
[00:40] [Trip] CFC won't have a Settler to rebuild the city for a while yet
anyways right?
[00:41] [Trip] this would give you time to prepare
[00:41] [GBM] yes
[00:41] [GBM] it would take us maybe 10 turns to get there, and we still have
other priorities.
[00:41] [MasterZen] perfect then
[00:42] * Togas whews!
[00:42] [Togas] that was easier than I thought.
[00:42] [MasterZen] btw, just checked the poll and it's favorable (so far)
[00:42] [MasterZen] the official poll
[00:42] [Togas] I was worried that we'd never come to a resolution
[00:42] [Togas] MZ, post in the thread about our proposal
[00:42] [MasterZen] I think I should make one big post with everything we've
hammered out so far
[00:43] * Togas nods
[00:45] [GBM] I dont know how others will react to this, but I think they have
realised this was going to happen
[00:45] [Togas] if we each get a chokepoint through this deal, I think that's
the best possible outcome.
[00:46] [GBM] yes
[00:46] [MasterZen] now we can both exploit the lake
[00:46] [Togas]
[00:46] [GBM] exactly
[00:46] [MasterZen] if geographical concerns were first on CFC's mind, then Eq
is actually a better place to get ships out
[00:47] [Togas] and, heck, we've already cleared out a lot of jungle for you
[00:47] [GBM] it's a case of 'we both get what is best for us'
[00:47] [GBM] lol
[00:47] [MasterZen] economic concerns were our priority, IMO Eq to CFC and BoP
to Poly works best for both
[00:47] [GBM] yes
[00:48] [GBM] I'll be off now
[00:48] [Togas] me too
[00:48] [Togas] very good talking to you
[00:48] * GBM is now known as GBM_elsewhere
[00:48] [MasterZen] I'll be here idling
[00:48] [GBM_elsewhere] same
[00:48] [MasterZen] Merry Christmas btw
[00:48] [GBM_elsewhere] and a happy new year
[00:48] [MasterZen] i'm sure we'll be talking to each other before that
[00:49] [MasterZen] ok, I'll "officially" end the chat here so I can start
posting this monster
[00:49] [Togas] chat over
[00:49] * Togas is now known as TogasAFK
End of #isdgfamtalks buffer Wed Dec 24 00:49:48 2003
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Summery:
Mongoose showed up and we (Trip and I) were talking to him about the War Weiriness situation with GCA and he has looked at a few things on their save and then had contacted Lucky Via MSNchat. Mongoose was coping their conversation into the FAM channel for us.
While that was going on, GBM from CFC had showed up, about the treaty, which they have ratified, signed and sent to us for signatures. We discussed a bit about techs, Although we did not say anything to him about having Chivalry yet, it did come up somewhat. At that time, it had become apparent that GWT was in their GA and we talked a bit about GCA/GWT possible plans against CGN, and the further need for CFC to send us GPT.
It was very interesting, that GBM had made not one, but 2 comments about getting chiv, so that they can get their GA! He didn;t elaborate and we didn;t ask.
I later had to leave, but by that time, Arnelos was there and he or Trip can post any followup to this, if there was anything.
quote:
Session Start: Sat Dec 27 18:59:48 2003
Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks
[18:59] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks
[18:59] * Topic is '4Greetings! 2 Please "1/notify (nick)"2 us when you enter this channel so that we know you are here. We will respond as soon as we can. Thanks. '
[18:59] * Set by BigFree on Sun Oct 12 02:42:39
[19:00] * E_T smacks mongoose201 around a bit with Conmcb25's wife
[19:00] mongoose201> Lucky emailed me that he "really needs to discuss something" with me..but I haven't caught him on MSN yet...I'm really dreading
[19:00] mongoose201> it
[19:00] Trip> perhaps you should contact them soon... it's been 3 turns since they've been around and with any capability to attack us
[19:00] mongoose201> hehe..hiya E_T
[19:00] E_T> Hey
[19:00] E_T> Well, it can't be about the save, because we still have it....
[19:01] Trip> I gave Anarchy a stern warning the other dqay
[19:01] Trip> day
[19:01] Trip> requesting they make peace in a civil manner
[19:01] Trip> or else
[19:01] mongoose201> oh, no... he heard that you have a ruling from me and he thought you were bluffing
[19:02] * roadcage has joined #ISDGFamtalks
[19:02] Trip> I never even mentioned you until the end of the chat
[19:02] Trip> I told Anarchy that we would send them an official peace offer soon
[19:02] mongoose201> hehe..well, it didn't take long to get around
[19:02] Trip> he said that they weren't going to make peace
[19:03] Trip> and I requested they not use an exploit
[19:03] Trip> and he whined for a bit
[19:03] Trip> and I asked again
[19:03] Trip> and he whined more
[19:03] mongoose201> quite a bit of whining there
[19:03] Trip> and then I told him that they would be forced if they weren't going to comply
[19:03] Trip> so I tried to play nice first :P
[19:04] mongoose201> rightly so... I never was positive about their intentions...I hoped for the best
[19:04] Trip> he/they didn't believe it to be an exploit
[19:04] Trip> "if we were going to attack them we were risking that happening"
[19:04] Trip> however, that's most certainly an exploit
[19:04] Trip> I even tried using historical examples
[19:04] mongoose201> hehe..well, I don't agree... it's not right to be penalized for eternity for winning a conflict
[19:04] Trip> to prove that it wasn't realistic
[19:05] Trip> and he eventually admitted that they were doing it just to be asses :P
[19:05] E_T> This is what we have sent them:
[19:05] E_T> We offer the following formal Peace Declaration. Please sign and return it to us. If you would like to discuss this, please meet with us in chat.
[19:05] E_T> Apolyton and GCA hereby agree to end all hostilities between our nations.
[19:05] E_T> A state of peace is agreed upon. The war is over.
[19:05] E_T> Signed by:
[19:05] E_T> Apolyton:
[19:05] E_T> NotYouEither, Consul
[19:05] E_T> Trip, Consul
[19:05] E_T> Arnelos, Consul
[19:05] E_T> Togas, Minister of Foreign Affairs
[19:05] E_T> Gamecatchers:
[19:05] mongoose201> sounds good to me, but they had their minds made up, apparently
[19:05] E_T> Hey, they just might be dead, if it weren;t for GWT
[19:06] Trip> perhaps you'll have a more meaningful chat with Lucky himself
[19:06] mongoose201> perhaps..he was online earlier... but wasn't near his computer evidently
[19:06] Trip> if worse comes to worst they could always quit
[19:06] E_T> Togas has posted that he had e-mailed it to them, 3 days ago
[19:06] Trip> not as though anyone will miss them now
[19:06] mongoose201> he is online now.. oh my
[19:07] Trip> hehe
[19:07] Trip> let us know what happens
[19:07] Trip> brb
[19:07] E_T> Have Lucky come here if he wants to discuss this with us
[19:07] mongoose201> I need to look at their last turn... back in a bit..ok..I'm still here
[19:09] E_T> Oh, they had e-mailed one of our FAM guys a few turns back, telling us to stop abusing the pease thing in the FAM screen
[19:09] E_T> the thing is, they were the ones sending it to us, se we sent it back, accepted, twice
[19:10] mongoose201> hmmm.. a bug maybe? I can't imagine them sending it, unless they were taunting
[19:11] E_T> if you go into the FAM screen and then ask for peace, you can check things against your opponant, like Iron and other resources, but you have to exit out and not send it
[19:12] Trip> back
[19:12] E_T> it was right before they had abandoned Blacksand
[19:13] E_T> here is what they had sent us:
[19:13] E_T> Just a short infomercial!
[19:13] E_T> If you want to talk about a peace treaty, I think you should officially
[19:13] E_T> contact us with such an inquiry and not abuse the in-game diplomatic
[19:13] E_T> channels!
[19:13] E_T> If not, then stop that abuse.
[19:13] E_T> Thank you.
[19:13] E_T> Lucky
[19:13] E_T> GCA
[19:13] mongoose201> ah, yes.. it's somewhat amusing, but when GWT sends them the save and cc's it to me, the rename it so it can't be loaded, as it that will keep me from it
[19:13] E_T> talk about someone abusing things,....
[19:14] E_T> rename it so that it can't be loaded??
[19:14] E_T> have you tryed renaming it yourself?
[19:15] mongoose201> oh, yes.. they just change the .sav at the end
[19:15] E_T> they really are starting to get on my bad side
[19:16] * E_T thinks that those "UberKrauts" need to be brought down a peg or 2....
[19:18] Trip> are you talking with Lucky?
[19:18] mongoose201> no..looking at their save
[19:18] Trip> ah
[19:18] mongoose201> why? you want screenshots? hehe
[19:19] mongoose201> anyone in here speak German?
[19:20] E_T> Trip does
[19:21] E_T> we noticed that GWT just used a leader, We hope they aren't leader farming with GCA
[19:21] mongoose201> DrieKommaEinsVier ... that's one of their city names.. just curious what it meant
[19:21] E_T> Pi
[19:21] E_T> 3,14
[19:21] E_T> or 3.14
[19:21] mongoose201> ah
[19:22] E_T> germans (and most Europeans) use the comma instead of the Period for the Decimal point
[19:23] mongoose201> ah... interesting city name
[19:24] E_T> Depends on why they decided to name it that
[19:26] Trip> E_T: they may not have used a leader
[19:27] Trip> they could have been prebuilding in Parthemunde
[19:27] Trip> they did build the PYRAMIDS there after all
[19:27] E_T> why do that?
[19:27] E_T> the prebuild
[19:27] Trip> why not?
[19:29] Trip> maybe not a prebuild
[19:29] Trip> just keeping it hidden
[19:29] Trip> if they wanted the Colossus (and now their GA) they'd want to keep it a secret
[19:32] E_T> with their UU just around the corner??
[19:32] E_T> unless they want their GA just before they get their UU
[19:33] Trip> good plan
[19:33] Trip> then they have an army before a big attack instead of after it
[19:33] Trip> plus the Colossus is pretty cool
[19:33] Trip> they want to save up gold for upgrades probably using their GA
[19:34] mongoose201> here we go... wish me luck :S
[19:34] Trip>
[19:34] Trip> let us know what happens
[19:37] * roadcage has left #ISDGFamtalks
[19:39] * GBM has joined #ISDGFAMtalks
[19:39] GBM> hello peoplea
[19:40] GBM> and mongoose!
[19:40] Trip> hiya GBM
[19:40] GBM> just coming to give you the results of our poll
[19:40] Trip> coool
[19:40] E_T> Good
[19:41] Trip> -o
[19:41] GBM> Yes - 13, No - 0, modification needed - 3
[19:42] GBM> not a single No vote
[19:42] Trip> awesome
[19:42] GBM> do you have your results ready?
[19:42] Trip> checking now
[19:43] Trip> I think it's safe to say that we ratify it as well
[19:43] Trip> 24 for yes, 0 for no
[19:43] GBM> yes
[19:44] GBM> wow
[19:44] GBM> I dont think anybody disagrees with this!
[19:44] Trip> hehe
[19:45] Trip> seems we did a good job in that last chat
[19:45] GBM> yes
[19:46] GBM> I'll just find a witness to ratify it, then I'll send it your way
[19:46] E_T> We have Mongoose here, he can witness
[19:47] GBM> well, ok
[19:47] GBM> I'll send you what we have, to make sure it is what you have
[19:47] E_T> that is, if he wants to...
[19:47] mongoose201> one sec, still in discussion
[19:48] E_T> Oh, one thing you should let your team know, last turn, GWT got their GA
[19:48] GBM> wow
[19:48] E_T> they build Colossus
[19:48] GBM> so that is what lucky was on about
[19:49] E_T> what was that?
[19:49] Trip> what do you mean?
[19:49] GBM> just a sec
[19:51] * GBM2 has joined #ISDGFAMtalks
[19:51] * GBM has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:51] E_T> Trip> what do you mean?
[19:51] E_T> GBM> just a sec
[19:51] E_T> * GBM2 has joined #ISDGFAMtalks
[19:52] GBM2> bah, what a mess
[19:53] E_T> what?
[19:53] GBM2> just trouble connecting
[19:53] E_T> dialup?
[19:53] GBM2> no, ADSL, just kept getting disconnected from IRC
[19:53] GBM2> which email should I send it to?
[19:54] E_T> send what, the thing from Lucky or the Treaty?
[19:54] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[19:54] mongoose201> furthermore, if I´m not mistaken, WW will subside by itself if there is no new influential factor
[19:54] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[19:54] mongoose201> so within 10 turns or so, Poly should face much less to complain about
[19:54] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[19:54] mongoose201> the only factor is that when fighting starts again, the WW will be back to the level it was before
[19:54] GBM2> the treaty
[19:54] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[19:54] mongoose201> and that´s exactly how it should be
[19:55] GBM2> what was that
[19:55] GBM2> ?
[19:55] Trip> WW will not go away
[19:55] E_T> send it to all of them
[19:55] Trip> without peace
[19:55] Trip> it never goes DOWN by itself
[19:55] E_T> it will go up some, and down some, but it never goes away fully
[19:56] Trip> which is why its an exploit
[19:56] E_T> yep
[19:56] GBM2> here: Lucky says: 260AD
[19:56] GBM2> And now, only 10 years more for CGN.
[19:56] GBM2> now I know
[19:57] E_T> That was the fact that they years interval had changed, from 20 years to 10 years
[19:57] E_T> per turn
[19:57] E_T> brb
[19:57] mongoose201> this is a good one: Lucky says:
[19:57] mongoose201> but quite frankly, if that is the final say, we can expect another, probably even more vicious round of discussion
[19:57] mongoose201> is that supposed to be a threat? do you think?
[19:58] GBM2> apparently I'm missing something...
[19:58] mongoose201> I'm talking to Lucky
[19:58] GBM2> ok
[19:58] mongoose201> about the ruling about the WW in the ISDG
[19:59] Trip> I think he means he's going to be mean to you from now on if you force peace on them :P
[19:59] * GBM2 is now known as GBM
[19:59] mongoose201> yeah..and I have ruled for them in every previous issue, but now I'm an *******
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See Part II
E_T
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
[20:00] Trip> make sure you mention that
[20:00] mongoose201> I have
[20:00] Trip> tell them if they want to attack us then they can send some Galleys instead of using exploits
[20:01] E_T> Yes GBM, because we want to have peace, because there is no need to have war when they and us can't do anything about it.
[20:01] E_T> Tell then, they should have stood and fought instead of taken the cowards way out
[20:02] GBM> I'm a little irritated by them at the moment...
[20:02] GBM> why didn't they try?
[20:02] E_T> But, it would appear that GCA wants to use an Exploit to keep us in War Weariness
[20:03] GBM> just give up, climb into a hole, and keep on annoying everyone who walks past for sympathy. Not an honorable game now is it?
[20:03] E_T> They only tried, when they could make sure (i.e. reload) that they could do something....
[20:03] E_T> but then, we CAN"T prove they reloaded
[20:04] E_T> but they were SO DAMN LUCKY!!!!
[20:04] GBM> how was that?
[20:04] E_T> they never lost a battle against us
[20:05] E_T> whenever they did fight
[20:05] GBM> they only kept the city if they knew they could keep it
[20:05] E_T> or they knew they couldn't hurt us badly
[20:05] GBM> we sent a smaller stack to blacksand once, and they completely destroyed the stack
[20:05] GBM> bring in a larger stack, and they give up
[20:06] E_T> thing is, their best opertunity to make a stand was at their capitol
[20:06] E_T> and they didn;t even try
[20:07] E_T> they only fought when they "knew" they would win it
[20:07] GBM> but what is REALLY confusing me is that they got rid of all their units too. I mean, they could have at least been a nusance, but they just destroyed them
[20:07] GBM> yes
[20:07] E_T> all of those units are on the other contenent
[20:08] GBM> ah, ok
[20:08] GBM> how?
[20:08] E_T> they moved to their new capitol when they abandoned Blacksand
[20:08] GBM> grr...
[20:08] E_T> it's a kind of exploit
[20:09] Trip> they gifted the cities to GWT, jumping their units over to their new capital on that continent
[20:09] GBM> but what exactly are they going to do now?
[20:09] E_T> the thing that we are wondering, is why GWT did that for them
[20:10] E_T> we think that they are going to help GWT take out CGN
[20:10] GBM> I would like to talk to GWT, but their communications are... lacking
[20:10] E_T> with their UU, it doesn't need Iron or Horses to build
[20:10] E_T> Lacking = nonexistant
[20:10] mongoose201> unfreaking believable
[20:11] E_T> Are they leaving the game??
[20:11] mongoose201> at the beginning of the game, I am accused of conspiring against Apolyton... now I am accused of being in league with you
[20:12] E_T> Who accused you of conspireing against us?
[20:12] mongoose201> oh, there were rumblings I heard.. never anything said formally
[20:13] GBM> now they're getting stupid. Well, not that they already were...
[20:13] Trip> silly me, and I thought Lucky would be more sensible
[20:13] E_T> this is one reason I'm likeing the MZODG, becuase we have pointed out all of the exploits and have forbidden them
[20:15] GBM> I guess this is why the save is being delayed?
[20:16] E_T> No, we are just waiting for one more person to show up before we play it
[20:17] E_T> our MoW didn't get any Unit movement orders posted and we want to give him an opertunity to get a say as to what he wants before we move them for him
[20:18] E_T> that and the Holidays
[20:18] GBM> ok
[20:18] GBM> yes, some of us like a break
[20:18] * GBM will BRB
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> let us look at a hypothetical but surely possible situation
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> your ruling would make staying at war illegal when for a certain amount of time no battling is happening
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> well, what happens of one civ of one continent launches an invasion force to the other, which is repelled
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> then, according to the ruling, the invaded nation either has to sign peace or quickly rush together some units to send over as well
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> and that´s just nonsense
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> there are hundreds of situations where wars last for 20+ turns with no fighting happening
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> and there have been in this game as well
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> for example the war GWT vs CGN
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> to my knowledge, there has been no fighting for at least 5, more likely 10 turns
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> same with CFC and us
[20:19] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:19] mongoose201> we were at war for more than 5 turns before any fighting happened
[20:19] mongoose201> mongoose says:
[20:19] mongoose201> but that is not the case... that is not what has happened here... you have retreated to another side of the planet.. this is an individual ruling... and you have no intention, apparently (maybe I'm incorrect) of making war in a reasonable time period... and if they wanted to, they have no reasonable way of doing so..they didn't start a war with a civ on the other side of the planet, they started a war with a neighboring civilization
[20:20] Trip> good
[20:21] Trip> maybe you need to make the exact distinction
[20:21] Trip> there's different intents for staying at war in each situation
[20:21] Trip> THAT is what the ruling is about
[20:21] Trip> not the simple situation staying at war, but the INTENT in doing so
[20:22] GBM> the intent isn't to destroy us, simply to bug us forever...
[20:26] E_T> they will likely do a dirty against CGN, then shoot for Nav and some and Invade over here
[20:27] E_T> and in the mean time, they will try to cripple us with War Weariness
[20:29] GBM> If that happens, I think I'll just leave
[20:31] E_T> don't go just yet
[20:31] GBM> not now, but if it continues
[20:33] E_T> what are your research plans for the moment?
[20:34] GBM> we've pretty much decided to fund you, but it we have some sqay in what you research
[20:34] GBM> sqay =sway
[20:35] E_T> I was wondering what you were planing to research the slow method while we are working on the fast track
[20:35] Trip> perhaps we can discuss that a bit now
[20:35] GBM> yes
[20:35] Trip> first off, I asked Octavian about you guys changing to Republic
[20:35] Trip> any plans with that?
[20:35] Trip> it would help increase the GPT and research rate
[20:36] E_T> We feel that GCA is going for monarchy, too
[20:36] GBM> I was thinking, you can run at 100% (minus luxury rate, of course), we gift you the deficit + a bit more
[20:36] GBM> republic is good, we should switch soon
[20:36] Trip> okay
[20:36] Trip> that's probably a big deficit
[20:36] Trip> we are 14 turns from finishing Invention
[20:36] GBM> then as much as we can...
[20:36] E_T> but then, they would likely get hit with WW, too
[20:36] Trip> we can run at about -60 GPT
[20:37] Trip> E_T: yes, but they will probably make more even after turning up the lux slider
[20:37] GBM> we would like to to research Chivalry if we fund you
[20:37] GBM> wow
[20:37] GBM> I'll see what we can earn...
[20:38] Trip> you should be able to muster a lot of gold though
[20:38] GBM> see, with chivalry, we can start a golden age whenever we want it
[20:38] E_T> Possible, but right now, until CGN gets Theo to us, the only real tech they can work on, at a slow rate, is Monarchy
[20:38] Trip> since we don't finish Invention for a while yet
[20:38] mongoose201> you ready for a lot to read?
[20:38] Trip> sure
[20:38] E_T> sure, shoot
[20:38] * GBM braces himselft
[20:38] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:38] mongoose201> as of now, we will NOT accept a peace treaty from apolyton unless they negotiate with us (which in effect requires certain reparations)
[20:38] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:38] mongoose201> furthermore
[20:38] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:39] mongoose201> unless a full team vote officially declares upkeeping WW illegal, and that for all times in this game, we will not accept the ruling
[20:39] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:39] mongoose201> you are the game admin, but sorry, you are not the game
[20:39] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:39] mongoose201> the teams are the game
[20:39] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:39] mongoose201> and hence, the teams ultimately decide about the game as well
[20:39] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:39] mongoose201> this is nothing personal, but if you once again refer to the other ISDG in spe, you´ll see that the positions and abilities a game admin should have are under intense discussion there as well
[20:39] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:39] mongoose201> newfound exploits, bugs, illegal moves from a team and following punishment, yes that should be for the admin to decide
[20:39] mongoose201> mongoose says:
[20:39] mongoose201> I understand your position, and I would feel the same way in your case. I understand that I am not the game.... I have tried to stay as far out of the way as I could possibly do, as a matter of fact. And I am aware that these things are being discussed in greater detail in the other ISDG's...but, while you are referring me to the other ISDGs
[20:39] mongoose201> mongoose says:
[20:39] mongoose201> oops
[20:39] mongoose201> mongoose says:
[20:39] mongoose201> the other ISDG's (correctly), I will refer you to the Pledge at the beginning of this game...that's what we have..I wish we had done more
[20:40] mongoose201> I don't know why he is asking for a team vote.. they would lose 3 to 2
[20:41] Trip> you could always tell him that
[20:41] E_T> stalling for time, maybe
[20:42] E_T> one more turn of WW
[20:42] Trip> maybe
[20:42] Trip> we should start a poll now then
[20:42] * E_T is now known as E_T_dinnertime
[20:42] * E_T_dinnertime .
[20:43] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:43] mongoose201> yes, we have that
[20:43] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:43] mongoose201> but it is open to interpretation
[20:43] mongoose201> Lucky says:
[20:43] mongoose201> and most have already seen the interpretation used to justify our fortify all ruling as treading a thin line
[20:43] mongoose201> mongoose says:
[20:43] mongoose201> treading a thin line? for one civ to have two moves before another has one? that's just common sense.. but that topic has been beaten into the ground enough...I'm sorry, but I have to go now.. I'll be back online tomorrow after work
[20:45] Trip> mongoose: perhaps you can go ahead and start a poll now for, say, 5 days, just to get this done
[20:45] Trip> Apolyton will (obviously) be able to vote today
[20:45] Trip> I would imagine CFC could as well
[20:45] mongoose201> we know what CGN thinks
[20:45] Trip> yes
[20:45] GBM> yes
[20:45] Trip> the sooner we start this poll the sooner we can have this issue done
[20:46] Trip> we can get 3/5 votes in a couple days
[20:46] Trip> and then watch as GWT threatens to quit again
[20:46] Trip> brb
[20:46] GBM> lol
[20:46] * Arnelos has joined #isdgfamtalks
[20:46] mongoose201> they will probably say it wasn't worded correctly, but I'll try to get something worked out tonight... It may help me avert an ulcer
[20:47] mongoose201>
[20:47] mongoose201> hiya arnelos
[20:47] Arnelos> hey
[20:47] GBM> you missed all the 'fun'
[20:48] Arnelos> oh?
[20:48] mongoose201> fun? you are twisted, sir
[20:48] GBM> not fun, but 'fun'
[20:48] mongoose201> ah, I see the difference now
[20:48] GBM> i.e. sarcasm
[20:48] mongoose201>
[20:48] Arnelos> someone want to fill me in?
[20:48] GBM> hehe
[20:49] mongoose201> my discussion with Lucky, arnelos
[20:49] Arnelos> heh
[20:49] mongoose201> perhaps someone can send you the log
[20:49] Arnelos> 'fun' indeed
[20:49] Trip> yes
[20:49] Trip> make sure to word the poll VERY carefully
[20:49] Trip> avoid any loopholes
[20:51] mongoose201> yes, it's amusing..apparently now, I'm biased towards the "Poly/CGN alliance" lol
[20:52] Trip> only because we don't cheat :P
[20:52] mongoose201> hehe..yes.. you naughty boys
[20:52] Trip> that and the bribes
[20:52] GBM> me bad... 
[20:52] mongoose201> well, yes..that too
[20:53] Trip> ;D
[20:53] mongoose201> If they saw how many "reismarks" I have accumulated at CGN, they might really suspect
[20:53] Trip> haha
[20:53] Trip> miccofl gave me some
[20:53] Trip> so I could get an avatar :P
[20:54] BigFree> I CAN SEE IT NOW 12 GWT:4 "We quit. We no play with people who think they are bigger than the game. We no think we cheat, we only play what we feel is fair. So, now, we quit becuase it is no fair."
[20:54] mongoose201> hehe..he didn't give me any..I won it all betting football games
[20:54] mongoose201> hehe, yeah
[20:54] Trip> yeah yeah
[20:54] Trip> you two are a pair of compuslive gamblers
[20:54] Trip> compulsive
[20:55] mongoose201> not compulsive...I don't have too... hang on, let me get another drink from the waitress...
[20:55] mongoose201>
[20:55] Trip> hehehe
[20:55] Trip> so then
[20:55] Trip> who wins tomorrow, Broncos or Packers?
[20:56] GBM> whos or whats?
[20:56] mongoose201> although I don't bet NFL... I think the Packers... the broncos have already established their spot in the playoffs..and GB has something to play for
[20:57] Trip> bah, silly people
[20:57] mongoose201> probably not a popular opinion in colorado?
[20:57] Trip> not particularly
[20:57] GBM> oh, american football. That sport where guys in tights run at each other...
[20:57] Trip> except for my dad
[20:57] Trip> he's a doomsayer :P
[20:58] Trip> Brett Favre = God
[20:58] mongoose201> ah, I see.. yes, GBM.. although not exactly tights, but I can see why balet lovers would think so...
[20:58] Trip> the reason I like football is because of the strategy involved
[20:58] Trip> it's all quite exciting
[20:59] GBM> ballet rocks
[20:59] mongoose201> not quite as exciting as having a SGL and MGL at the same time, but exciting nonetheless
[20:59] mongoose201> hehe
[20:59] Trip> :P
[21:00] GBM> so much strategy involved...
[21:00] Trip> no kidding
[21:00] mongoose201> here we go
[21:00] Trip> football though...
[21:00] Trip> offense, defense, matchups, passing, running
[21:00] Trip> it's all about the strategy
[21:00] Trip> and having good players :P
[21:00] Trip> then again, no general won with an army that sucked
[21:00] mongoose201> yep..it's all about getting the slot reciever man to man against a linbacker
[21:01] mongoose201> well..that's what it's about on PS2 anyway
[21:01] GBM> a what and whatbacker?
[21:02] mongoose201> the slot reciever.. he's the guy between the tight end and the wide reciever..and the linebacker is..well, behind the defensive line
[21:02] GBM> I think I need to learn what american football is
[21:03] Trip> hehe
[21:03] mongoose201> everyone should!
[21:03] Trip> a good offensive line and a good RB is quite potent
[21:04] Arnelos> bah, the most valuable and yet seemingly undervalued element of any football team is the offensive line
[21:04] GBM> from what I know, a bunch of guys wearing WAY too much 'armour' line up in a formation, in attempt to get a person, with the ball, over a line
[21:04] mongoose201> yep..well, guys I have to go... I'll be around later... I need to get rid of this headache before messing with this poll.
[21:04] GBM> bye
[21:04] Trip> hehe
[21:04] Trip> thanks mongoose
[21:04] mongoose201> see ya
[21:04] Trip> 'Til lata
[21:04] mongoose201> no problem
[21:04] Arnelos> mongoose - we offer no guarantees that messing with the poll won't bring the headache right back ;p
[21:04] Trip>
[21:05] Arnelos> cya
[21:05] mongoose201> I understand:P
[21:05] * mongoose201 has left #isdgfamtalks
[21:06] Trip> GBM: how much gold do you think you will be able to supply us to work on Gunpowder in 14 turns?
[21:06] GBM> up to 25gpt IIRC
[21:06] GBM> but we want to switch to republic
[21:07] GBM> get our settler factories firing, how they should have been
[21:07] Trip> you will also have gold stored up though, correct?
[21:07] GBM> yes
[21:07] Trip> that will help some
[21:08] GBM> though we would like chivalry, so we can trigger a Golden Age when required
[21:09] Trip> Gunpowder costs 1152
[21:09] Trip> if we were to research it in 10 turns that would require 115 GPT
[21:10] GBM> if you were to focus on libraries, and we on marketplaces, it would be all good
[21:11] Trip> yes
[21:11] Trip> it will require a substantial amount of cash
[21:16] * E_T_dinnertime is now known as E_T_have_to_leave_shortly
[21:16] GBM> well, I'll email the treaty to you, you just have to send it back, signed.
[21:17] GBM> address, please?
[21:17] Trip> TripGoT@hotmail.com
[21:21] GBM> ok, sent
[21:21] Trip> I'll let you know if I get it
[21:21] GBM> ok
[21:24] GBM> be back in 5 minutes
[21:29] * GBM is back
[21:30] Trip> checking my email now...
[21:30] GBM> ok
[21:30] Trip> got it
[21:30] GBM> make sure it is the same thing you agreed on
[21:31] Trip> okay
[21:33] E_T_have_to_leave_shortly> Got to go guy
[21:33] GBM> bye
[21:34] * Disconnected
Session Close: Sat Dec 27 21:35:01 2003
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
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OMG, someone from GWT came to chat with us!
Part 1 of 2
quote:
Session Start: Thu Jan 01 12:26:47 2004
Session Ident: #ISDGFAMTALKS
[12:26] * Now talking in #ISDGFAMTALKS
[12:26] * Topic is 'Greetings! Please "/notify (nick)" us when you enter this channel so that we know you are here. We will respond as soon as we can. Thanks. '
[12:26] * Set by BigFree on Sat Oct 11 23:42:39
[12:26] * ChanServ sets mode: +o BigFree
[12:26] * BigFree sets mode: +ps
[12:55] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away
[14:59] * Joins: MasterZen (~raguil@dup-200-65-167-46.prodigy.net.mx)
[14:59] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen
[15:20] * Quits: MasterZen (~raguil@dup-200-65-167-46.prodigy.net.mx) (Quit: )
[15:36] * Joins: bongo (~tom-rune.@ras156.ffi.no)
[15:36] bongo} 'ello
[15:38] E_T} hello
[15:38] E_T} how are things going today
[15:38] bongo} fine thanks
[15:38] * E_T can't remember what team bongo is on
[15:38] bongo} GWT
[15:39] E_T} Wow, let me see if I can get someone in here
[15:39] bongo} no hurry, it's kinda late ere now
[15:39] * E_T smacks BigFree|Away around a bit with Conmcb25's wife
[15:39] bongo} Going to bed soon, just have to play my turn in a PBEM
[15:40] E_T} Well, it's long time, no hear from you all
[15:40] * BigFree|Away is now known as BigFree
[15:40] bongo} yeah, we've been busy
[15:40] BigFree} hello
[15:40] E_T} we had thought that you all didn;t want to talk to us, when we had sent several messages to your former Ambassidor
[15:41] bongo} who was that?
[15:41] BigFree} feanor
[15:41] E_T} we even asked Sir Ralph to post something in your Forum asking for some form of responce
[15:42] E_T} and that was almost 2 months ago, IIRC
[15:43] bongo} too bad, we have had some problems with our team structure.. it's over now
[15:43] E_T} Oh, then that's good. We had thought that you were mad at us or something
[15:43] bongo} Have you gotten our new team email address?
[15:44] BigFree} yes
[15:44] BigFree} Iron Jackson gave it to us
[15:44] bongo} good
[15:44] BigFree} Him and MZ have communicated a bit as of late
[15:45] bongo} you can always contact me if you need to. I'm online pretty much every day
[15:45] E_T} we had sent messages to Feanor about the Galley, never heard from you all, moved it into your border, hoping to atleast get your attention, but only got a stern warning to move off and that was the last (until recently) that we have heard a peep from your team
[15:46] bongo} yeah, we're a bit sensetive about that...now that we are at war with neta
[15:47] E_T} but we hadn't gotten anything from you all, when we had tried to get a Naval RoP and only heard that one thing. And that was ages ago, it would seem now
[15:48] bongo} true, we haven't been very vocal on the diplomatic schene lately
[15:48] E_T} but your here now (and we are glad to finally hear from you, too)
[15:48] BigFree} not good for a demo game
[15:49] bongo} you're right about that
[15:49] E_T} no, it makes people who are even remotely active a bit antsy, wondering what they had said/did that had gotten the other team so pissed off at them
[15:50] bongo} Have you gotten anythin official about that naval RoP
[15:50] bongo} well, we're not talking much with neta either, but that's because we are genuinely pissed
[15:50] E_T} which is what we have been wondering for a while, did we piss you all off (before the Galley thing) at any time?
[15:51] E_T} Well, you 2 ARE at war, which is understandable
[15:51] BigFree} how did the war happen in the first place?
[15:51] bongo} You're a strong competitor of course, which make peaople a bit wary
[15:51] E_T} what, in our little jungle, please.....
[15:52] bongo} I joined long after it started but from what I've heard Neta rolled over grenouille and thought they could continue into our core..
[15:54] bongo} they followed up by insisting that the border should be drawn in the edges of our land..
[15:54] BigFree} ah, the old 2/3 1/3 split
[15:55] E_T} well, that has been none of our concern, although we would have likely offered to help meadiate between the 2 of you, if we had had more regular contacts with both of you
[15:55] BigFree} Or..."One for me one for you,two for me one for you, three for me one for you"
[15:56] bongo} yeah, something like that.
[15:56] E_T} but Unfortunately, you all have come at a "bad time"
[15:56] E_T} with the end of the holidays....
[15:57] E_T} a lot of people are out of town and such until atleast monday
[15:57] bongo} No problem, at least I know where to find you
[15:57] E_T} we have started discussing a Naval RoP with you all (no land units are included in this, i.e. not to land)
[15:58] E_T} but most everyone is still MIA
[15:58] bongo} I don't think we are ready for that yet
[15:58] bongo} Maybe at a later time, when the war is over, or is looking favourable to us
[15:59] E_T} Well, why not, it's only fair, atleast IMHO
[15:59] E_T} as I had said, we have no interest in your conflict, just want to explore this great world of ours
[15:59] E_T} like you want to do, too
[16:01] E_T} So, I have to ask, why did you all name that one city 'Pi'
[16:01] bongo} Ah, we have a galley close to your shores, but we don't need to stay in your waters for as long as you have to.
[16:01] bongo} Dreikommavier, hehe, don't know, before my time
[16:01] E_T} Bongo, that was our argument, several months ago, too
[16:03] E_T} as far as we had known, it would have been very short stay in your waters, then we would have been gone...
[16:03] bongo} it was? I didn't know. At most we need to stay one turn in your waters...
[16:04] E_T} now, with your newer cities, we would likely have to stay in your waters for longer that we even would have been comfortable with....
[16:04] BigFree} I think it would only be considered fair to deny your request to go through our waters since you have denied and seem to continue to deny our request to do the same.
[16:05] E_T} but then, that isn't up to us
[16:05] bongo} We're fine with that, we can go in another direction as well
[16:05] E_T} BF is a former Consul
[16:05] BigFree} right, this is an "informal" discussion.
[16:06] * Joins: Togas (Togas@c-66-229-68-28.we.client2.attbi.com)
[16:06] E_T} And I've been hanging out here and participating in most of the discussions
[16:06] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Togas
[16:06] E_T} and here is our FAM
[16:06] Togas} greetings
[16:06] Togas} I'm at home with house guests
[16:07] Togas} won't be online long, but I saw ET's post and decided to drop in briefly
[16:07] E_T} we are talking about the fact that we are still discussing the Galley passage, after so much time not hearing from them
[16:07] E_T} and that most everyone is MIA
[16:08] bongo} Hi Togas
[16:08] Togas} what's the latest?
[16:09] bongo} Nothing big really, just dropped by to introduce myself
[16:09] Togas}
[16:09] Togas} Good to have you. We have had trouble in the past getting ahold of our Rep from GWT
[16:09] bongo} I'm Minister of War of the GWT team
[16:09] E_T} Well, we have a team that is feeling that they have neglected their Diplomacy and are now trying to correct that misight
[16:09] Togas} war, eh?
[16:10] bongo} It sound better than 'minister of defence'
[16:10] Togas} When Trip got the job on our team, he called it the same thing ... Minister of War.
[16:11] E_T} we have 3 consuls and 3 main Ministers, the Ministers mainly advise the Consuls
[16:11] bongo} 'Kriegsminister' does have this sinister quality
[16:11] Togas} Anyhow, it's good to have you guys drop by. We always try to keep someone in this chat channel to deal with game issues between teams or just to chat.
[16:12] E_T} they do set some policy and do the main dirty work, but the consuls make the final desisions
[16:12] bongo} Oh, what is this WW issue btw?
[16:12] Togas} I don't know if we've complained "officially" yet. We're still hoping to work something out.
[16:13] E_T} not yet
[16:13] * Joins: notyoueither (~spam@h24-109-29-5.ed.shawcable.net)
[16:13] Togas} The war over here is over
[16:13] notyoueither} hello
[16:13] Togas} Heya NYE
[16:13] bongo} I know,
[16:13] E_T} and one of our Consuls
[16:13] notyoueither} glad you are here, Togas. I dropped by in case noone was around when I saw ET's message
[16:14] Togas} we're hoping to get on with things and hoping that GCA will agree as well.
[16:14] bongo} They may want to hurt you as much as possible you know...
[16:14] Togas} I hope they'll be more mature about it in the end
[16:15] Togas} GWT killed Fraxis, CGN killed Grenole, GCA killed CDG.
[16:15] Togas} That's the game
[16:15] E_T} If that was so, they should have fought instead of running away
[16:15] Togas} that's how it's played.
[16:16] bongo} Have you asked them what they will need for a peace treaty?
[16:16] Togas} We sent them email without a reply
[16:16] Togas} as far as "what they need" I don't understand your question.
[16:16] E_T} Also, GCA was at war forever with CFC, who had asked us to first help meadiate to prevent their war, then to try to help them out
[16:17] E_T} We try to meadiate, but GCA was too inflixible in their demands
[16:17] bongo} Maybe they want tech/money etc to accept peace
[16:17] Togas} Do you think that's fair?
[16:18] Togas} I don't think that would be very fair to ask of us.
[16:18] bongo} Why not? Giving you peace would benefit you, not them
[16:19] Togas} What if there was one Fraxis city left, hidden deep in another civ's territory
[16:19] Togas} and they demanded GWT pay them for peace?
[16:19] Togas} would that be fair?
[16:19] E_T} they would also lose the little bit extra happiness that they get from Despot while under wartime
[16:20] bongo} well, fortunately that didn't happen, if it did we would have had to deal with it in some way
[16:20] Togas} how would you deal with it?
[16:21] bongo} Just wait, or have a revolution, or pay them, or keep your pop happy in osome way or another
[16:22] E_T} did you know, that the same people who are doing this now, are considering it an exploit, for the C3C ISDG?
[16:22] bongo} Maybe it isn't fair and I can see why you don't like it but it is a part of the game in the same way ascataplt bombardment are.
[16:22] Togas} I'm sure you guys wouldn't stand for such a cheesy tactic.
[16:23] Togas} in the actual game that was coded, the programers set it up so that the AI would accept peace
[16:23] bongo} I wouldn't know about c3c ww yet...
[16:24] E_T} not withstanding, the same people are setting up that game, saying that it's an exploit and won;t be tolerated
[16:24] Togas} when they went multiplayer, they had no idea people would be so vindictive and juvenile about such thing.
[16:25] E_T} atleast the AI will give you peace, after the first 5 turns of war
[16:25] bongo} Part of the fun isn't it
[16:25] bongo} Clearly there are no AIs here
[16:26] Togas} clearly, but the issue still persists on what is fair and what is a exploitative of the game programming.
[16:26] Togas} anyhow, I'm sure it'll be argued at some point
[16:26] Togas} I have to take off now
[16:26] bongo} bye then
[16:27] Togas} my signifigant other is bugging me about "avoiding our company"
[16:27] notyoueither} you have to leave, Togas?
[16:27] E_T} he's with family
[16:27] Togas} Yes, unfortunately. I have house guests :/
[16:27] Togas} It's good to see you visit us, though
[16:27] E_T} Togas} greetings
[16:27] E_T} Togas} I'm at home with house guests
[16:27] E_T} Togas} won't be online long, but I saw ET's post and decided to drop in briefly
[16:27] Togas} please drop in whenver
[16:27] notyoueither} unfortunate, but good for your social life
[16:27] Togas} true, true...
[16:27] bongo} No problem, now that I know wher eto find you I will return another day
[16:28] Togas} We'll be here
[16:28] E_T} we have had this room posted a long time ago at 1BC
[16:28] Togas} anyhow, good luck, and please carry on the conversation without me
[16:28] E_T} and we have been nere
[16:28] notyoueither} bongo, if I may, why did GWT offer them refuge?
[16:28] Togas} see you guys later!
[16:28] E_T} *here
[16:28] * Quits: Togas (Togas@c-66-229-68-28.we.client2.attbi.com) (Quit: )
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
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Part 2 of 2
quote:
[16:29] bongo} hmm, thats classified for now
[16:29] E_T} did they tell you about the whole history of their wars over here? and why they had started in the first place?
[16:29] E_T} or only their version of the facts?
[16:29] bongo} well, we got some stories..
[16:30] notyoueither} i'm sure you did
[16:30] E_T} do you have a little time to go into it?
[16:30] bongo} umm, yes but I don't remember at the moment, have to look it up first
[16:31] notyoueither} does gwt not regard blipping civs across the globe and continuing war to hurt an opponent an exploit?
[16:32] bongo} It's borderline, but unlike the fortify-all thing this is available to everyone.
[16:33] E_T} A little bit of history about CGA, then
[16:33] notyoueither} will you be shocked when we ask the un to do something about it?
[16:33] notyoueither} or, mongoose to be more precise
[16:33] bongo} I can add that we got clearance from moongose beforehand
[16:33] E_T} We first encounted them shortly after we had meet CDG
[16:33] notyoueither} sure, to gift cities. np. to exploit the game?
[16:34] bongo} Anyway, it was not vital to our strategy, we could easily have done without
[16:34] notyoueither} how would gwt treat poly if we had given refuge to firaxis?
[16:34] E_T} we had fairly good relations with them, over time
[16:35] bongo} We would have become wary with you, yes
[16:35] E_T} We had then meet all of the inhabitants of this contenent, CDG, GCA and CFC
[16:35] notyoueither} and allowed them to continue at war with you to 'punish' you
[16:35] bongo} Onyl if we had WW to start with
[16:36] notyoueither} what will gwt's position be when this is brought to the un, if it is?
[16:36] bongo} we will support GCA on this
[16:36] E_T} I have to go
[16:37] * E_T is now known as E_T_AFK
[16:37] notyoueither} what if the decision goeas against gca?
[16:37] bongo} You might want to know that GCA could have pulled this of without our help
[16:37] notyoueither} i doubt it
[16:38] notyoueither} even if they could have, they have done it with your help
[16:38] bongo} you know that island SW of your continent, their original plan was to settle it, cover it in units and turtle there until amphibous warfare
[16:38] notyoueither} yes, we anticipated that. would not have worked
[16:38] bongo} Oh, why?
[16:38] notyoueither} classified
[16:39] bongo} I see a cfc city there now
[16:39] bongo} it would have been a race..
[16:39] notyoueither} yes, gca was not the only one building galleys, and they would have lost the race
[16:40] notyoueither} but then, gwt would not be involved whether it worked or not. however, you are involved now
[16:40] bongo} I'm not so sure, they were very well preapared
[16:40] BigFree} HAHA
[16:41] bongo} True, we are involved. How are the feelings in your forum towards us now?
[16:41] notyoueither} what could have happened is not really relavent, is it. whjat is relevant is what has happened
[16:41] notyoueither} bongo} True, we are involved. How are the feelings in your forum towards us now?
[16:41] notyoueither} that will depend on your handeling of this issue
[16:42] notyoueither} we do not begrudge gca living
[16:42] notyoueither} them being there is not an issue
[16:42] notyoueither} exploiting the game mechanics of war and peace on the other hand...
[16:42] bongo} so then, what is an exploit?
[16:43] notyoueither} preserving a civ with the sole purpose of hurting a rival through ww
[16:43] bongo} not what I meant
[16:43] notyoueither} that is how we see it
[16:44] notyoueither} similar issues came up near the end with cdg
[16:44] notyoueither} we wanted to allow them to stay in the game
[16:44] notyoueither} it turned out that that was not in the best interests of all involved
[16:44] bongo} RCP and 'fortify-all' are both exploits, but as RCP are available to all human player it can be allowed, fortify all is not avaliable to everyone and should be disallowed
[16:45] bongo} just an example
[16:45] notyoueither} changing tiles worked during production is available to all, it is cheating
[16:45] notyoueither} reloading to do combats over is available to all. it is cheating
[16:46] notyoueither} this never ending war stunt is available only to bitter people who are sore losers
[16:46] bongo} somme issues are easier to place than others
[16:47] notyoueither} we know where we place it
[16:47] notyoueither} abd i don't know a single group of mp players who would accept it
[16:47] bongo} Of course, but you are on the recieving end now
[16:48] notyoueither} well, duh
[16:48] notyoueither} our opinion would not change
[16:48] notyoueither} gca's own oppionion in another game is that it is an exploit
[16:48] bongo} Course not OTH, forcing someone to take WW is still a valid strategy in other games
[16:49] notyoueither} you will have to forgive me somewhat. i am not a diplomat, and sometimes i speak plainly
[16:50] notyoueither} forcing ww is perfectly valid, when you can actually fight them
[16:50] * Joins: Arnelos (~Arnelos@pool-138-88-223-31.res.east.verizon.net)
[16:50] notyoueither} when another civ intervenes to shelter them across the map; that is cheating. to say it plainly
[16:51] notyoueither} allo, arnelos
[16:51] bongo} The reason I don't view it as an exploit is that WW is an intended part of the game. They have been forcing you to take it for some time now and continue even when there are no fighting. The effect will wane thoug
[16:51] Arnelos} ah, bongo - I heard you were here
[16:51] notyoueither} no, it will not
[16:52] bongo} Are you saying we cannot intervene if we choose to do so?
[16:52] notyoueither} i am saying that what gca is doing is an explit in their own opinions, and that gwt is aiding them in doing it
[16:52] notyoueither} Poly will not treat that lightly
[16:53] bongo} hehe, course not
[16:53] notyoueither} anyways, it looks like it will have to be an issue for mongoose
[16:53] bongo} We're helping them stay alive, the WW thing is their decision but they have our support on it.
[16:54] notyoueither} we certainly do not seem to be making any progress
[16:54] bongo} Amen to that
[16:55] notyoueither} i have to say that were the situations reversed, Poly would not relish putting relations with another significant civ in the ditch over such a cheesy tactic
[16:57] Arnelos} Two issues here:
[16:57] Arnelos} don't know what you all have discussed before, but here's how I see them:
[16:57] Arnelos} 1. Naval Passage: When we approached GWT about getting rights to naval passage, we were refused. We would be willing to allow your passage if you allow our own. If not, then not. Simple.
[16:58] * Joins: bongo_72 (~tom-rune.@ras162.ffi.no)
[16:59] notyoueither} where did you cut out?
[16:59] bongo_72} hi ther, hit the wrong button
[16:59] notyoueither} bongo} Amen to that
[16:59] notyoueither} notyoueither} i have to say that were the situations reversed, Poly would not relish putting relations with another significant civ in the ditch over such a cheesy tactic
[16:59] notyoueither} Arnelos} Two issues here:
[16:59] notyoueither} Arnelos} don't know what you all have discussed before, but here's how I see them:
[16:59] notyoueither} Arnelos} 1. Naval Passage: When we approached GWT about getting rights to naval passage, we were refused. We would be willing to allow your passage if you allow our own. If not, then not. Simple.
[16:59] Arnelos} 2. GCA continual war: irregardless of the issue of whether GCA attempting to pursue a continual war with us is considering an exploit (we believe it is), GWT is actively helping GCA pursue this policy, one which is directly detrimental to Apolyton and CFC. GWT must understand that this will not make for good relations with Apolyton and CFC.
[16:59] bongo_72} even lost all the text from the chat
[16:59] notyoueither} we can mail you a log
[17:00] bongo_72} NYE-}Great
[17:01] bongo_72} Arnie, issue #1, we have coverd it already, not while there is a war
[17:01] bongo_72} issue #2, how much war do you need for it to be 'fair'?
[17:01] Arnelos} GWT is not any longer a neutral party in the CFC/Apolyton-GCA conflict if they were actively working to provide protection to GCA and supporting them in their attempt to wage continual war on Apolyton and CFC.
[17:01] Arnelos} *they are
[17:02] bongo_72} well, it's getting very late here (0200) and my wife wants my to come to bed...
[17:02] Arnelos} simply put, you need to decide whether you are "neutral" or not. Supporting a belligerent party in a war makes you involved in that war.
[17:03] notyoueither} have a good night, bongo. thanks for coming by. at least we have spoken now. that has not been the case of late
[17:03] bongo_72} See you another time I would appreciate a log
[17:05] bongo_72} Bye then, You'll just have to kick out my double logon...
[17:05] notyoueither} ok. g'night
[17:05] Arnelos} g'night bongo
[17:05] * Quits: bongo_72 (~tom-rune.@ras162.ffi.no) (Quit: )
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
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Here's some intel gleened form CGN is a chat.
They have 3 Knights now.
They will have 9 total Knights 11 turns from now.
They make 135 gpt clear.
They are "Weak" to GWT.
They do not have contact with GCA and are not sure they want it or not as of yet.
quote:
Session Start: Fri Jan 02 00:00:00 2004
Session Ident: #isdg-Embassy1
[06:38] * Quits: brian_the_bold (Gildor-Gol@568DAAC.F3B9940B.B9BB9D9.IP) (Ping timeout)
[10:02] * Disconnected
[10:02] * Attempting to rejoin channel #isdg-Embassy1
[10:02] * Rejoined channel #isdg-Embassy1
[10:02] * Topic is 'Welcome'
[10:02] * Set by miccofl on Thu Jan 01 10:39:32
[13:23] miccofl} Never try to teach a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and it annoys the other pigs.
[13:25] miccofl} fortunately I am not one of the pigs and have enjoyed the exploit thread (and have stayed quite silent)
[13:33] miccofl} I read the earlier discussion on comms with GCA. The biggest advantage to us having it will not be in this game but rather in the C3C game - I will no longer be bound to remain silent about things related to GCA and all issues can be put on the table.
[14:56] * Joins: SL3 (SL3@cgn-EC88829.columbus.rr.com)
[14:56] * Parts: SL3 (SL3@cgn-EC88829.columbus.rr.com)
[17:58] BigFree} HAHA
[18:00] miccofl} I wonder how many times he has reloaded...
[18:01] BigFree} :P
[18:01] BigFree} I sent a PM to Elucidius
[18:02] BigFree} he posted int he thread that he wanted me to apologize
[18:02] BigFree} to Lucky
[18:02] BigFree} HAHA
[18:02] BigFree} I wrote him back saying that would definately not apologize
[18:02] BigFree} *I would not
[18:02] miccofl} I see no need to
[18:03] BigFree} I aslo told him about GCA run of "luck" and sent him some info about the stats concerning it
[18:03] BigFree} He was very interested in it.
[18:03] BigFree} He was a part of CDG when they got overrun by GCA
[18:03] BigFree} He thought something was fishy back then
[18:04] BigFree} It seems GCA luck continues from one Civ to another to another (CDG, CFC, APO)
[18:04] BigFree} Well, not us anymore thank goodness
[18:05] BigFree} whats the little "~" mark by your nick mean?
[18:05] miccofl} took a unit out of order this turn and killed a barb galley, hopefully it will scramble the RNG
[18:05] miccofl} I don't see the ~
[18:05] * Looking up miccofl user info...
[18:05] BigFree} hmm
[18:06] BigFree} ~miccofl
[18:06] BigFree} weird
[18:06] BigFree} it used to have the @ sign
[18:06] BigFree} to denote Op status
[18:07] miccofl} the irc got moved from one server to another and back yesterday
[18:07] miccofl} scrambled some things for a while
[18:07] BigFree} ah
[18:09] miccofl} is the war still ongoing?
[18:11] BigFree} I think so, I have not loaded the game yet
[18:11] miccofl} GWT has Chivalry now
[18:11] miccofl} didn't take long
[18:12] miccofl} of course if they are using 1.21...
[18:14] BigFree} that woud suck
[18:14] BigFree} are you refering to a trainer of some sort?
[18:14] miccofl} Friaxis made a big mistake when they made the versions compatible
[18:17] miccofl} There was an exploit that allowed one to save a PBEM and reload with a production bonus
[18:17] BigFree} ah, thats right
[18:20] miccofl} one of the reasons I gave mongoose201 access to our private forum was to cover our asses, we can't be cheating if the GA can see everything we do
[18:21] BigFree} thats true
[18:22] BigFree} maybe each team should have to submit screen shots showing that thier builds are consitent without using any sort of cheats.
[18:22] miccofl} although I must say he really pissed me off when he gave GCA licence to teleport all their units
[18:22] BigFree} Us too, we really looked forward to killing them! 
[18:23] miccofl} then discussion comes up to eliminate such a thing from the rest of the game
[18:23] miccofl} My comment was no-way
[18:23] BigFree} yes
[18:23] BigFree} Gifting of cities should be allowed, but not under all circumstances
[18:24] miccofl} never rule out the possiblity to fight fire with fire
[18:25] miccofl} if I could figure out a way for us all to get all our units over on our continent in position to overrun the "axle of evil" and return all the cities to their rightful owners...
[18:26] miccofl} but then I always subscribed to the bigger hammer theory
[18:27] miccofl} the teleport needs to be either eliminated or curtailed from the C3C game
[18:28] miccofl} as does the ww gifting
[18:28] BigFree} ture
[18:29] BigFree} It was even brought up that if we wanted to use the 'teleporting' thing; we could "loan" you some Catapults.
[18:29] BigFree} But, that is just not right
[18:29] miccofl} yeah
[18:29] miccofl} if we are going to stoop to that level we should do it all the way
[18:29] BigFree} Maybe we hsould ask GWT if they thik that would be fair or not
[18:29] miccofl} or not at all
[18:31] miccofl} I have an official request
[18:31] miccofl} nevermind it won't work
[18:32] miccofl} GWT's iron is roaded but we are able to offer them iron
[18:35] BigFree} hmm, that means that they disconnected their capital
[18:38] miccofl} I show it connected
[18:39] miccofl} they have a road on the Mt W of Flammburg
[18:40] * Joins: Furloaf (Furloaf@cgn-325F2508.tnt1.galion.oh.da.uu.net)
[18:40] miccofl} could they be sharing the resource?
[18:40] BigFree} I guess they could be
[18:40] BigFree} They could have given it to GCA for a turn
[18:41] Furloaf} Hello BIgFree
[18:41] BigFree} Hi
[18:43] miccofl} Curious that this appeared in a recent C3C discussion:
[18:43] miccofl} 1.2 Sharing a Luxury or Strategic resource
[18:43] miccofl} Two teams can get the use of a single resource by repeated gifting and then cancelling of the trade. One Iron should only supply one civ at a time.
[18:43] miccofl} and then a civ that has only one iron within its borders doesn't have its use when it is roaded
[18:47] BigFree} I checked and both GWt and GCA does not have Iron
[18:47] BigFree} and the Iron does have a road....
[18:47] BigFree} weird
[18:51] BigFree} wiat a minute
[18:51] BigFree} than Iron is not roaded
[18:51] miccofl} You may pass this on: I now have authority to harrass, interfere with, block, impede, instigate and provoke any unit of GCA on sight. If it is the opinion of the Premier and the leadership that it is the best course of action, lethal force is authorized. (We would prefer they started it)
[18:51] BigFree} the game only shows 2 commerce for the tile
[18:51] BigFree} If it was roaded, then it would show 3
[18:52] BigFree} I will pass it on.
[18:53] miccofl} It reads 1/2/2 but the tile shows roaded
[18:55] BigFree} the pictures do not update unless you get an updated map
[18:56] BigFree} but the game will report (when you right click a tile) what the production values are
[18:56] BigFree} it's sort of a cheat
[18:56] miccofl} yeah, I went back and looked - it was roaded last turn
[18:56] BigFree} but I have used in in so may SP games....
[18:56] BigFree} ok, so they cut it this turn
[18:56] BigFree} and GCA does not have access to it
[18:56] miccofl} somehow we must have had a visible the last time they cut it
[18:56] BigFree} One question though
[18:57] BigFree} How do you know GWT has Chiv?
[18:57] miccofl} F4
[18:57] miccofl} offer peace and it is no longer available
[18:58] BigFree} right
[18:58] BigFree} I thought maybe you seen one
[18:59] miccofl} that would be finding out the hard way
[18:59] BigFree} haha
[18:59] miccofl} but we monitor that closely
[18:59] miccofl} somehow they pulled it off in 4 turns
[19:00] BigFree} two turns ago we were average to you and weak to GWT, last turn we are avergae to you both...same as this turn.
[19:00] miccofl} we are average to you and weak to GWT
[19:01] BigFree}
[19:01] miccofl} 3 knights now
[19:02] BigFree} It looks as if GWT was in Rex mode
[19:02] BigFree} they settled quite a few cities in the last few turns
[19:02] miccofl} 3 cities last turn
[19:03] miccofl} corruption will be unreal
[19:05] BigFree} I thin they have a FP over ther though
[19:06] BigFree} How many more knights predictied in the next 10 turn will you have?
[19:06] * Joins: notyoueither (spam@cgn-2ED76296.ed.shawcable.net)
[19:06] miccofl} 4, 6 in 11
[19:06] notyoueither} allo
[19:06] miccofl} hello
[19:07] BigFree} 6 more knights in 11 turns?
[19:07] BigFree} or 6 total
[19:07] miccofl} give or take 1 or 2
[19:07] notyoueither} don;t mind me, i just came to observe
[19:08] miccofl} 6 more
[19:08] BigFree} ok
[19:08] BigFree} cool
[19:08] BigFree} so, thats 9 total in 11 turns from now
[19:08] miccofl} right
[19:08] BigFree} I'm hoping to see your rting rise versus GWt soon
[19:09] BigFree} It did rise a little, according to our own reports
[19:09] miccofl} may do it next turn, just upgraded 4 swords and 4 spears
[19:09] BigFree} nice
[19:10] BigFree} how are you doing on upgrades?
[19:11] miccofl} 1 sword left (not happening anytime soon) and 2 Reg Warriors (cannonfodder)
[19:12] BigFree} ok, good
[19:13] BigFree} do you guys have any intel as to whne to expect a GWT attack?
[19:13] BigFree} Are all your cities dedicated to miltary production now?
[19:13] BigFree} Can we loan you an ICBM?
[19:15] BigFree} Also, GWT has not given GCA contact with you,, for whatever reason; do we want to spoil that?
[19:15] miccofl} other than the archer posse over by El-Amarna we see no offensive units, we have two galleys in the "Bay of Contention" (the long one in the middle that goes north and you have seen Pvt Stalker
[19:15] BigFree} right
[19:15] BigFree} ok
[19:19] miccofl} almost all productive cities are dedicated to mil prod we kicked one back to growth and a courthouse
[19:19] * Joins: brian_the_bold (Gildor-Gol@1C92D81A.F3B9940B.B9BB9D9.IP)
[19:19] brian_the_bold} hi there
[19:20] miccofl} there are many arguments for and against
[19:20] miccofl} the GCA contact isse
[19:21] miccofl} personally I think of more arguements for having it
[19:21] miccofl} especially with the harrass mission
[19:22] BigFree} right
[19:22] miccofl} just opening an embassy will say "Hello, we just had a look - guess what - we told everybody"
[19:22] BigFree} But, alsom, there this
[19:22] BigFree} If GWT wants them to nvestigate you, then they can
[19:23] miccofl} it's their gold
[19:23] BigFree} right, but what im saying is that GWT contraols the contact situation as much as we do
[19:23] BigFree} so, why have they not given it?
[19:25] miccofl} a: they don't want it; b: they don't need it - yet; c: they don't want it or feel they need it (not)
[19:25] BigFree} gotta go eat now, bbl
[19:25] BigFree} take it easy you guys
[19:25] notyoueither} bye, bf
[19:25] brian_the_bold} d they dont want us to be able to investagate and find they gifted there iron to gca
[19:25] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away
[19:25] brian_the_bold} later bf
[19:26] miccofl} later
[19:26] BigFree|Away}
[19:27] miccofl} there is that d option again, cheating is such an ugly word
[19:28] notyoueither} cheating? gifting iron?
[19:29] miccofl} when it is the only resource, it is not supposed to be allowable
[19:30] notyoueither} oh, well the mechanics allow it. sp or mp
[19:30] miccofl} depends on how they do it
[19:30] notyoueither} i never looked at it as an exploit
[19:30] brian_the_bold} if you gifted and callcelled evey otgher turn i think thats called an exploit
[19:31] miccofl} that is what we need to look for
[19:31] notyoueither} ahh. i think so too. since war would be required
[19:31] notyoueither} or... cut roads
[19:32] brian_the_bold} roads wont show unless we have sombody to look
[19:32] notyoueither} i can tell you that neither have iron at the moment
[19:33] brian_the_bold} mabey there iron moved
[19:33] miccofl} we knew GWT didn't have it
[19:33] brian_the_bold} or the barbs pillaged it again
[19:35] notyoueither} the iron is still there 9 9 of meiertopia
[19:35] notyoueither} tile displays 2 shields
[19:36] miccofl} and 2 commerce, it appears that the road is there but the statistics show it is not
[19:36] notyoueither} 1 com for river, 1 for republic
[19:36] notyoueither} no road
[19:37] brian_the_bold} ah but iron is 2 shioelds and a hill is 1 shield so should be 3 shields minumum]
[19:37] notyoueither} iron is +1
[19:37] brian_the_bold} there in there ga so they get extra shields
[19:37] brian_the_bold} so i bet the friggin iron mpved
[19:38] notyoueither} it displays what the tile is worth to the observer
[19:38] brian_the_bold} ah but you domnt have spome one there and it will not update
[19:39] brian_the_bold} if there is an iron deposit it will have a minimum 2 shileds
[19:39] notyoueither} not how it works. the right click tile properties show the actual, up to date. not based on what you can see
[19:39] brian_the_bold} and a hill have to have 3 shields there ga makes 4 shields
[19:40] brian_the_bold} perhaps im wrong im somewhat weak on game mecanics
[19:40] brian_the_bold} ok if it shows up to date how can there only be 2 shields then
[19:40] brian_the_bold} ?
[19:41] miccofl} a roaded mined hill tile with iron produces 1 food, 4 shields and 3 commerce - Hull 290 AD
[19:42] miccofl} so a hill tile with Iron produces 1/2/2
[19:42] notyoueither} yes, iron is +1 spt
[19:42] miccofl} GA does not affect tile production on the map
[19:43] notyoueither} it would, if we looked and we were in ga.
[19:43] notyoueither} the right click will tell you what the tile is worth to you
[19:44] miccofl} right, but us, not being in a GA will see it at its normal state
[19:44] notyoueither} yes
[19:44] miccofl} the tile is unroaded
[19:44] notyoueither} yes
[19:45] notyoueither} that is what it looks like to us
[19:45] brian_the_bold} so its been pillaged then
[19:46] notyoueither} i would bet on that
[19:46] miccofl} two turns ago
[19:47] notyoueither} and maybe some prior. i have seen them without iron for some time now.
[19:47] notyoueither} we reported that to you, did we not?
[19:47] brian_the_bold} well if there planning on cranking out horses and upgrading to ansanars they going to need a ton of cash 60 gold each
[19:47] miccofl} pretty sad when teams use tactics that cause the other teams to examine things so closely for evidence
[19:47] miccofl} yes you did
[19:48] notyoueither} it is easier to spot than right clicking. just use diplomacy and see what you can ofer them
[19:49] miccofl} that works to see if they need it, the right click is required to see if they are abusing it
[19:49] notyoueither} i guess so
[19:49] notyoueither} can i ask a question that you may decline to answer?
[19:49] miccofl} sure
[19:50] notyoueither} how much gpt are you capable of in a round about figure
[19:50] notyoueither} ?
[19:51] brian_the_bold} you mean groos or net?
[19:51] brian_the_bold} gross
[19:51] notyoueither} gross is fine
[19:52] miccofl} 135 if we shut it all off
[19:52] notyoueither} you don;t have to answer. but gwt and you are ahead of us, so i was trying to get an idea where they are
[19:53] notyoueither} shut it all off?
[19:54] notyoueither} i just need to understand how that number is arrived at
[19:54] miccofl} if we cut science and entertainment to 0% we can produce about 135 per turn
[19:54] notyoueither} ok. thanks
[19:54] notyoueither} do you have intel on where they are?
[19:54] miccofl} GCA or GWT
[19:55] notyoueither} gwt. how big their economy is?
[19:56] notyoueither} do you show 1 or 2 in gnp and mfg goods?
[19:56] notyoueither} and before they went into ga
[19:57] brian_the_bold} brb
[19:57] miccofl} we were #1 in Pop, GNP, Mfg Goods, Land, Lit, Pop, Fam Size, An Income & Productivity before their GA - we lost out on GNP, Mfg Goods, Income and Productivity
[19:57] notyoueither} excellent
[19:58] notyoueither} things are better than they could be
[19:58] notyoueither} a large force of ansars can be a hndful though
[19:59] miccofl} they have to go through 2 walled, 1/2 barracked (but will be) and heavily defended cities first
[19:59] notyoueither} well, i have to go soon. it has been nice chatting with you. please let us know if there is anything we can do to be helpful
[20:00] notyoueither} miccofl} they have to go through 2 walled, 1/2 barracked (but will be) and heavily defended cities first
[20:00] notyoueither} i like that
[20:03] miccofl} that gets a comment and the "axle of evil" crack doesn't even get a response Hmmm
[20:04] notyoueither} axis of evil?
[20:04] miccofl} axle
[20:04] miccofl} GWT and GCA
[20:04] notyoueither} heh. slow on the uptake, i guess. i missed it
[20:05] miccofl} in 290 AD no one knew what an axis was but every cart had an axle
[20:05] notyoueither} heh
[20:07] notyoueither} well, i really must go. have to play the turn soon. bye
[20:07] miccofl} later
[20:08] * Parts: notyoueither (spam@cgn-2ED76296.ed.shawcable.net)
[20:09] * BigFree|Away is now known as BigFree
[20:33] * Parts: brian_the_bold (Gildor-Gol@1C92D81A.F3B9940B.B9BB9D9.IP)
[21:21] * Quits: miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com) (Connection reset by peer)
[21:21] * Joins: SL3 (SL3@cgn-EC88829.columbus.rr.com)
[21:21] * Joins: miccofl (miccofl@cgn-28768D31.se.client2.attbi.com)
[21:21] * ChanServ sets mode: +oq miccofl miccofl
[21:26] * Parts: SL3 (SL3@cgn-EC88829.columbus.rr.com)
[21:32] * Parts: Furloaf (Furloaf@cgn-325F2508.tnt1.galion.oh.da.uu.net)
Session Close: Sat Jan 03 00:00:01 2004
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WhiteBandit
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Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
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Operation Thaw Lucky (Or Rape Him If This Doesn't Do Anything)... which it might not, whatever though! At least we tried.
quote:
Hey Lucky,
As luck would have it, I arrived at the chat about 4 minutes after you left. Sorry we missed each other, I'm on holiday myself at the moment. (How hardcore, still doing Civ work while taking a break from life!)
In any case, I just want to be frank with you. I know the feelings of you and those of your team are in no way favorable towards us. This is something we cannot change. However, I hope it doesn't affect feelings on a personal level. This is a game, and it is a game we all want to win.
Apolyton took a course of action that we felt was in our best interests to put us in a position to win the game. If the tables were reversed, I'm sure GCA would have worked something out as well, given enough time. At its heart, Civilization is a war game, and if one wants to win the game, war must be carried out, sometimes against former friends. Hell, us at Apolyton know that with our internal PBEMs, that you don't win games by being peaceful. Humans are not like the AI.
You're a great civilization player, as we learned from the early game as well as from the GOTMs at CFC. We hope eventually you will be able to get over your animosity, as we don't want it to carry over to other games, it will only hurt both of us.
Whatever though, we can't change what happened. Perhaps one day we can mend fences and work together in a future game, especially as every circumstance is different.
Regards,
WhiteBandit
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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Operation Chat with Lucky:
quote:
Session Start: Mon Jan 05 16:13:31 2004
Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks
[16:13] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks
[16:13] * Topic is '4Greetings! 2 Please "1/notify (nick)"2 us when you enter this channel so that we know you are here. We will respond as soon as we can. Thanks. '
[16:13] * Set by BigFree on Sun Oct 12 01:42:39
[16:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen
[16:13] [BigFree] ah, there he is
[16:13] [MasterZen] hello
[16:13] [BigFree] just discussing the letter that WB sent out, apparently Lucky did not get it
[16:13] * Eklektikos has joined #isdgfamtalks
[16:14] [MasterZen] Hmm, you didn't get the letter?
[16:14] [Lucky] hi ek
[16:14] [Eklektikos] hola
[16:14] [BigFree] I can eithr forward it to him or paste it here
[16:14] [MasterZen] forwarding would be better
[16:14] [Lucky] nope, didn´t land in any spam folder either as far as I can see
[16:14] [MasterZen] maybe WB sent to a wrong address
[16:14] [BigFree] So, you want to resend it or paste here Lucky?
[16:15] [Lucky] resend please
[16:16] [BigFree] giime your direct email
[16:16] [Lucky] Lucky@gamecatcher.net
[16:16] [Lucky] or GCteam@gamecatcher.net
[16:16] [Lucky] both work perfectly
[16:16] [MasterZen] hmm...I think WB sent it to the first
[16:16] [BigFree] I just sent it
[16:16] [BigFree] to the first
[16:17] * opd has joined #isdgfamtalks
[16:18] [BigFree] I sent to both now, just in case
[16:18] [Lucky] yep, got it
[16:18] [BigFree] oh, cool
[16:18] [MasterZen] great
[16:19] [Lucky] is this just from him or an official note?
[16:19] [MasterZen] official
[16:19] [Lucky] i c
[16:21] [BigFree] Well, I have to go, I have an interview to go to.
[16:21] [MasterZen] good luck
[16:21] [BigFree] thanks
[16:21] [MasterZen] you had better put your consulship on your resume
[16:21] [BigFree] HAHA
[16:22] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away
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[16:22] [Lucky] well, I see you are still very skilled at diplomatic talks, smiling broadly even when hiding the dagger right behind your back
[16:22] [MasterZen] well I think the message speaks for itself
[16:22] [Lucky] of course I don´t take this personally, it´s all part of the game
[16:23] [Lucky] however, it is you guys that make it personal, especially BigFree by his unqualified, unbacked and insulting comments in the rules discussion for the other ISDG
[16:23] [Lucky] so just a small advice
[16:23] [MasterZen] but that is another game, Lucky, that has nothing to do with this one
[16:23] [Lucky] Don´t take it personal!
[16:24] [Lucky] I know that, but does BigFree know?
[16:24] [MasterZen] should've asked that 5 minutes ago
[16:24] [Lucky] in any case, the mail doesn´t cover the actual topic of this meeting
[16:24] [Lucky] so let´s start with: "What do you want?"
[16:25] [MasterZen] we want peace, plain and simple.
[16:26] [Lucky] ah yes
[16:26] [Lucky] and what do you offer?
[16:27] [MasterZen] well, what does GCA want?
[16:28] [Lucky] well, you can´t really think that we would accept any state of peace between our people after you forced us to withdraw our whole civilization
[16:28] [MasterZen] well, to be honest, we did win the war and thus feel entitled to the spoils
[16:29] [Lucky] oh, I didn´t know we are dead and I didn´t know you destroyed even a majority of our forces
[16:29] [MasterZen] plus, continuing the war is pretty pointless as either of us cannot possibly harm each other until Navigation
[16:30] [Lucky] we withdrew and were not beaten
[16:30] [Lucky] we withdrew to fight at another time
[16:30] [MasterZen] we can't fight, that's a fact
[16:31] [Lucky] fighting is only one aspect of war and we still can
[16:31] [MasterZen] well then, if GCA wishes to renew the struggle in a further time, so be it, but in the meantime your actions are hurting us needlessly in a rather exploitish manner
[16:31] [Lucky] well, obviously your citizens don´t like to backstab other nations
[16:32] [Lucky] it is not our problem that you decided to wage war while trying to uphold a free society
[16:32] [MasterZen] our citizens don't like to fight. Our fight is over now. Let's move on to other things
[16:33] [MasterZen] it is not our problem that this game imposes WW penalties even 1000 years after a war is over, something that, should I say, is rather unrealistic
[16:33] [Lucky] and untrue
[16:33] * VladAnt has quit IRC (Quit: )
[16:33] [MasterZen] how so?
[16:33] [Lucky] your WW will subside and in a few turns the WW level will drop as well
[16:33] [Lucky] unless we fight again
[16:33] [Lucky] or move into each others borders
[16:33] [MasterZen] nope, I suggest you read the WW thread at CFC, WW does not subside until we make peace
[16:34] [Lucky] it does, only at a drastically reduced rate of 1 WWpoint per turn
[16:35] [Lucky] in any case, this is not the time to discuss game mechanics or interpretation of them
[16:35] [MasterZen] then back on topic, what does GCA want?
[16:36] [Lucky] I repeat, a people that has betrayed us from almost the very beginning of time cannot be trusted again and thus, I believe my people will never accept peace
[16:36] [Lucky] unless there is full compensation for all that we lost
[16:36] [MasterZen] you know that is not possible
[16:37] [Lucky] however, in light of the admins decision in this matter, we might have to consider signing a peace in the game
[16:37] [MasterZen] like we said, we take full responsability for our actions, we are well aware that our backstab might have negative consequences later on but it is a decision that we made and it is a decision that we stand by
[16:37] [MasterZen] time will tell if we made a mistake or not
[16:37] [Lucky] but for that to happen, we require a clear outline
[16:38] [MasterZen] of what?
[16:38] [Lucky] especially that such in-game peace is NOT anywhere considered to be an actual treaty
[16:38] [Lucky] we are honorable people, and we will stay that way until the end
[16:39] [Lucky] therefore we cannot sign a peace treaty when it is clear that our paths will cross again
[16:39] [MasterZen] that will be your team's decision not ours, all we want is that exploiting the game mechanics not be used against us or against anyone else
[16:40] [Lucky] oh, I thought you were just whining because you oversaw a game mechanic that was to your disadvantage :S
[16:40] [Lucky] my bad, you want to save the world again LOL
[16:41] [MasterZen] well, one can argue that GCA's very existance is thanks go a game mechanic that allows another civ to magically teleport your citizens to another continent which you can't even reach with a galley
[16:41] [MasterZen] but anyway, I do not want to argue about mechanics
[16:41] [MasterZen] if anything, those things should be argued at the UN, not here
[16:41] [Lucky] we had clear rules in the beginning and GCA always abides by those rules
[16:42] [MasterZen] all we want you to know is that ever since combat ceased we have been open to peace, and we will continue to do so
[16:42] [Lucky] it is just unfortunate that teams are able to invent new rules midgame just because they don´t like something to happen
[16:43] [MasterZen] it is impossible to get all the rules clear from the beginning, something like the ISDG had never before been attempted
[16:43] [Lucky] it wasn´t even tried
[16:43] [MasterZen] many things were bound to have escaped us at first, I am glad that we have enough flexibility to correct these issues whenever they come up
[16:43] [Lucky] and as displayed by BigFree, Apolyton doesn´t seem to be interested in such complete rules for the second ISDG either
[16:43] [MasterZen] many of things will help us, many will hurt us, but such is the game
[16:44] [MasterZen] Lucky, again, do not bring up the other ISDG in this issue, our teams are NOT the same, in fact much of our current leadership is not in the C3C game
[16:44] [Lucky] and again, it was BF that brings these things together
[16:44] [Lucky] anyway
[16:44] [MasterZen] your insisting in bringing up the C3C just shows that it is you who is taking things personal. If you have any issues with BF over there, argue it over there
[16:44] [MasterZen] not here
[16:45] [Lucky] you say you are open to peace, we are not
[16:45] [Lucky] and unless you have some offer to make, I don´t think that attitude will change in any way
[16:45] [MasterZen] our offer is a tad bit high, we will not hand over the spoils
[16:45] [MasterZen] if GCA wants an official apology or something akin to that, we will consider it, but I believe that is as far as we can go
[16:46] [Lucky] good one
[16:46] [Lucky] we know what written things from you are worth LOL
[16:47] [Lucky] well, if you have nothing more to offer, then consider us staying in a state of war
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[16:47] [MasterZen] then this issue shall be solved at the UN
[16:47] [Lucky] no
[16:48] [Lucky] this state of war will persist despite whatever in-game status change is demanded from us by the game admin
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[16:48] [Lucky] there will be no peace, simple as that
[16:48] [MasterZen] well, so be it, but we will not stand for an exploit being used agaisnt us, plain and simple.
[16:49] * VladAnt pulls up a chair
[16:49] [MasterZen] whatever treaties we have broken, we have never strayed from being in line with the spirit of this game and the UN's rules
[16:49] [MasterZen] and that will continue till the end.
[16:49] [Lucky] we have neither broken any rule NOR any signed treaty
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[16:50] [MasterZen] well, history will prove which of us made the wiser choice
[16:51] [Lucky] you can compare it a little with AI behaviour, conquer almost everything of his empire, some day he might sign peace but he will always stay furious and fight you again whenever possible
[16:51] [Lucky] unless you offer quite a lot of gifts
[16:51] [MasterZen] they will fight you if combat is possible. They will not declare war on you a continent away
[16:51] [Lucky] umm, sure they will
[16:52] [MasterZen] no they won't unless they are allied with someone else
[16:52] [Lucky] usually take a partner though
[16:52] [Lucky] yep, correct
[16:52] [MasterZen] usually = always
[16:52] [MasterZen] well, considering that we are not at war with anyone else, GCA has no partner to follow the AI's example
[16:53] [Lucky] ah, a nitpicker are ya? :S
[16:53] [Lucky] I said compare a little
[16:54] [Lucky] show me a nation in history, one of the few that was conquered but not totally destroyed, that freely signed peace with it´s aggressors!
[16:54] [MasterZen] show me a nation in history that was magically teleported to another continent :P
[16:55] [Lucky] not a nation per se, but the jews for example
[16:55] [MasterZen] well, I see we are getting nowhere with this, is there anything that GCA would co nsider suitable beside the obviously impossible demand of giving back your land? which btw, there are no longer any GCA cities there since you razed them all
[16:55] [MasterZen] the jews had ships. GCA did not send their settlers by ship
[16:55] [Lucky] how do you want to know what we did and did not
[16:56] [Lucky] you always seem to have an awful lot of information that sometimes cannot legally be known to you :S
[16:56] [Eklektikos] The Free French in WWII might be an applicable parallel to some extent.
[16:56] [Lucky] in any case, concerning a suitable offer
[16:56] [Lucky] well, obviously you don´t want us back in our old home
[16:57] [Lucky] despite your noble declarations to only go for strategic goals :rolleye:
[16:57] [Lucky] so, there are only other means of compensation left
[16:57] [MasterZen] well, your old home was razed by your own troops, there's not much we could offer "back"
[16:58] [MasterZen] but we are all ears for compensation, perhaps we can get this animosity behind us and get something done
[16:58] [Lucky] as explained before, we evacuated, not razed our own people
[16:58] [Eklektikos] which leaves the question of what you have to offer us
[16:58] [Lucky] make an offer and we will see what our people say
[16:58] [MasterZen] unfortunately due to naval issues we cannot offer luxuries or things of the sort
[16:59] [Lucky] until then we stay at war
[16:59] [Eklektikos] this we understand
[17:00] * CiverDan has joined #isdgfamtalks
[17:00] * VladAnt throws his chair at CiverDan
[17:01] [CiverDan] hey....
[17:01] [CiverDan] watch it..:P
[17:01] [VladAnt] my bad
[17:01] [MasterZen] well then, our in-game situation shall be determined by the UN, we would very much be open to such a compensation once the means arrive (i.e. Navigation) and perhaps have a formal "written" peace treaty done by then
[17:01] * VladAnt has left #ISDGfamtalks
[17:02] [Lucky] make your offer, we will discuss it then
[17:02] [MasterZen] perhaps luxuries, I believe our team must discuss it also
[17:03] [Lucky] seems this is all you want to say, damn, and for that more or less nothing we went the whole way to the old world Ek, can you believe it!? :S
[17:04] [MasterZen] internet sure makes the voyage so much shorter
[17:05] [MasterZen] well, besides land, what else would GCA want?
[17:06] [Lucky] oh, we´ll welcome everything, gold, techs, information ... really everything
[17:06] [Lucky] but as said, I have no idea how much is needed to appease our enraged citizens
[17:06] [Eklektikos] welcome in this instance meaning "will be happy to consider", just to keep things clear
[17:07] [Lucky] so if you seriously want peace and not just bypass a simple game mechanic, we look forward to a suitable offer
[17:08] [Lucky] until then we stay at war and let mongoose decide the guidelines we have to follow to appease your whinings
[17:08] [MasterZen] we will bring the issue to the UN regardless, that's a fact. Furthermore, I am very much going out on a limb considering compensations that our team, for the most part, doesn't consider necessary to give after all we won, and the consequences of our acts will come back to haunt us by themselves whether we compensate GCA or not
[17:10] [Lucky] well, whatever you say, we are finished here and therefore I end this meeting, good day traitors
[17:10] [Lucky] ***end of official negotiations***
[17:11] [MasterZen] you should have said "victorious traitors"
[17:11] [Lucky] you do have a positive ruling from mongoose and you still want to delay the game with another lengthy rules discussion?
[17:11] * E_T wonders if it's time for the "garden diplomacy" to start
[17:11] [MasterZen] I am unaware of any ruling by mongoose
[17:11] [MasterZen] then again, I am not a consul
[17:12] [MasterZen] although the consuls use me as their turn-playing lackey whenever one of them goes away...
[17:12] * MasterZen thinks he is being used
[17:12] [Lucky] we don´t care, actually we are prepared to bring this before the UN, yet so far we decided that in the light that we are the team holding up the game the least, we wanted to keep it that way
[17:13] [E_T] I thought that, when NYE asked you to shine his boots for him
[17:13] [MasterZen] tigers don't wear boots :P
[17:13] [Eklektikos] Not even canadian ones? they must get bloody cold then...
[17:14] [MasterZen] hmm, maybe he's some type of canadian-siberian tiger
[17:14] [E_T] that's why he had asked you to use your tongue.....
[17:14] [MasterZen] you mean my fork-tongue? :P
[17:14] [MasterZen] it would be no good, the fangs would get in the way
[17:14] [E_T] whatever works....
[17:14] [Eklektikos] No comment from the GCA delegation
[17:15] [MasterZen] hehe
[17:15] [Lucky] I hope it´s not as bad as at CFC where almost every team member is being used and unaware of the actual actions of a few leaders
[17:15] [MasterZen] hehe
[17:16] [Lucky] so, when will you wipe them out?
[17:16] [Eklektikos] Personally I suspect that the leaders themselves are unaware of their own actions half the time. Or so it would seem anyway
[17:16] [Lucky] lol, yeah
[17:16] [MasterZen] they have a new leadership now
[17:17] [Lucky] so we noticed
[17:17] [Lucky] seemingly as ignorant as ever though
[17:17] [MasterZen] btw, one more thing guys, and this IS on a personal note: PLEASE don't take the things that are said at the C3C ISDG forums against us here, I just went to look and some things were indeed rather rude, I am not apologizing as I am not on that team but well, it does kinda look bad
[17:18] [Lucky] it doesn´t look, it is bad
[17:18] [MasterZen] hehe, yeah
[17:19] [Lucky] and since BF is your consul here and there, I don´t see him thinking otherwise in this game
[17:19] [MasterZen] he is not a consul since a month ago
[17:19] [MasterZen] Trip took his place
[17:19] [Lucky] wow, what an improvement
[17:19] [E_T] BF hasn't been a consul for a month
[17:20] [MasterZen] well guys, I have to leave
[17:20] [Eklektikos] obviously weren't looking for someone with great diplomatic skills, then
[17:20] [Lucky] they have MZ for that
[17:20] [MasterZen] should I take that as sarcasm? :P
[17:20] [E_T] Trip, he makes a great figurehead....
[17:21] [Eklektikos] I'd advise you to lash him to the nearest mast, then
[17:21] [Lucky] no, just as you said yourself, "being used"
[17:21] [MasterZen] yeah, the FAM uses me too
[17:21] * E_T would really like to use MZ....
[17:21] [MasterZen] but anyway, nice to finally talk with you guys despite we didn't get much solved, hopefully the future shall be more favoralbe
[17:21] [E_T]
[17:22] * MasterZen will never let E_T use him
[17:22] [E_T] darn...
[17:22] [Lucky] we´ll see that
[17:22] [MasterZen] cya
[17:22] [Lucky] finally no need to roleplay the furious guy anymore, phew ... :S
Session Close: Mon Jan 05 17:22:40 2004
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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First part of chat with CFC in #isdgfamtalks. Trip will post the rest later. I need to take off.
quote:
Trip> ahh
Trip> hello Arne
Arnelos> hey
DX_Zoi> hello Arnelos, I am your new Ambassador from CFC
Trip> Arnelos is the other active consul
Arnelos> ok
Arnelos> good to know
Trip> brb
DX_Zoi> you should also know that I am acting Minister of Defence as well
* WhiteBandit has joined #ISDGFAMTALKS
* ChanServ sets mode: +o WhiteBandit
Arnelos> acting minister of defense? what happened to the elected one?
Bootstoots> he suffered a tragic "accident"
Bootstoots> j/k
DX_Zoi> OK, so I misspoke. I am the Minister of Defense. My apologies.
Arnelos> I like Bootstoots version better
Arnelos> so who all is in the CFC cabinet, anyhow?
DX_Zoi> Boots, that information was classified. I , um, am and have always been the Minister of Defense
CivGeneral>
Arnelos> Prez GBM, VP Bootstoots, FAM Zarn, MoD DX Zoi - who else?
CivGeneral> Former Ambassador to GC
DX_Zoi> CivGeneral is our Minister of Internal Affairs
Arnelos> ah
DX_Zoi> Wizard is our Minister of Science
Arnelos> for us, a lot of moving around, but some things have remained... Consuls are now myself and Trip... Master Zen is currently undergoing election to replace notyoueither
Arnelos> for ministers, Togas is still FAM, E_T is Domestic Minister, Aggie is the new Minister of War
DX_Zoi> Thank you for the info
DX_Zoi> So, how are you enduring war weariness under Republic?
Arnelos> not too badly
Arnelos> wait... who was your former ambassador to GCA?
Arnelos> you?
CivGeneral> Well I am Perm-Banned from GC
Arnelos> lol
Arnelos> how'd you manage that? (not that it would be hard)
DX_Zoi> not me.....Civ general is our Ambassador
Arnelos> ah
WhiteBandit> ah yes
DX_Zoi> long story
Arnelos> WhiteBandit was/is our ambassador to GCA
Arnelos> fun job
CivGeneral> I also dont want to talk about it
Arnelos> ok, no problem
DX_Zoi> note to self: we need a new (unpermbanned) ambassador!
DX_Zoi> cordial lots they are
Arnelos> heh
DX_Zoi> How concerned are you about the harboring of GCA by GWT?
Arnelos> rather
DX_Zoi> as are we, especially with both of those nations close to their UU
Arnelos> we are admittedly concerned for the health of CGN
DX_Zoi> if not already there
DX_Zoi> as are we(CGN)
DX_Zoi> No doubt that GWT has bought GCAs propoganda hook line and sinker
Arnelos> Frankly, GWT's actions harboring GCA makes them, in effect, no longer a neutral party in the CFC/Apolyton-GCA conflict. I would assume that GWT understands this and the risks that it may entail.
DX_Zoi> I believe that their self-destruction was merely to paint us both as vile aggressors.
DX_Zoi> By this I mean GCAs abandoing of their cities
Arnelos> the BIG question is whether GWT fully comprehends and expects CFC and Apolyton aid for CGN
CivGeneral> I wonder why they are doing that
DX_Zoi> Notice how they didn't destroy the city until our troops were just outside of it?
Arnelos> indeed
Arnelos> they fought us once, at Algalord
Arnelos> they lost (badly)
Arnelos> after that, they refused to stand and fight
Arnelos> only hit-and-run
Arnelos> we still managed to isolate and kill a few stacks they placed in vulnerable locations, but they did not intentionally stand against us after that
Arnelos> in every case, they ran
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DX_Zoi> They ran from us too, and we so badly wanted to engage
Bootstoots> DZ, do you know if we ever fought their troops during our second involvement in the war?
Arnelos> after a while, we just got into the habit of moving our stack of doom close to a city and assuming it wouldn't be there the next turn rather than prepairing more lenghty sieges
DX_Zoi> I honestly don't belive that we did, Boots......
Bootstoots> yeah, they just kept abandoning their cities without a fight
DX_Zoi> That's what we did as well, though we were ready for anything
Arnelos> GCA insisted that we and CFC would never "get anything from them" in the war. They assumed that what CFC and Apolyton wanted was their cities. In reality, what we really wanted was their LAND, which they handed over quite freely.
Bootstoots> yeah...they were quite generous in their handing over of land
DX_Zoi> Anyway, we may not be of much help to CGN until we get Caravels
Arnelos> only way to help CGN for now is tech
DX_Zoi> Yes, we did get plenty of that, Arnelos
DX_Zoi> What tech are you reaseacrhing at this point?
Arnelos> Invention
Arnelos> I believe we are nearly there
DX_Zoi> We are still deciding, but we should onviously take another route.
DX_Zoi> man, spell check in Aisle 5....sorry
Arnelos> btw... there was some talk about potentially combining the financial resources of CFC, Apolyton, and CGN to get them Gunpowder at best speed. I'm not sure where that discussion lead to because I've been less active over the holidays.
DX_Zoi> Has anyone from CFC been active in those taks? Cheetah, perhaps?
Arnelos> I honestly don't know
Arnelos> like I said, I wasn't entirely active myself
DX_Zoi> Just got that but had already finished typing
Arnelos> AFAIK, it's just an idea that was floated
Trip> I'm fairly sure that was the plan
Trip> I myself engaged in lengthy discussions
Trip> I believe with Boots/Oct
DX_Zoi> Was a CFC rep present, Trip?
Trip> and maybe GBM at one point
DX_Zoi> ok
Trip> it is also in our alliance agreement
Arnelos> I know we've discussed sharing research money *with CFC*, I just don't know if the three-way tech research idea has been discussed with all three parties
Trip> we will pool our financial resources to research faster
DX_Zoi> I realize that, Trip
DX_Zoi> I will investigate our science output to determine our next research goal
Trip> I believe CFC was going to research a tech at 40 turns
Arnelos> sounds sensible
Trip> and we would recieve gold to speed up the tech we would be doing next
Trip> by the way
Trip> when does CFC go out of anarchy into Republic?
DX_Zoi> understandable, although I do not know the exact formulas
* CivGeneral is now known as CG_Away
* CG_Away is away: Karate
DX_Zoi> 4-5 turns I believe
DX_Zoi> later CG
Arnelos> cya
DX_Zoi> Do you already have Chivalry?
DX_Zoi> are you still there, Arnelos?
Trip> sorry, back
Trip> I had to run upstairs
Arnelos> oops, sorry, didn't have the window up
Trip> yes, we recently got it
* Octavian|C3C-PBEM-Tourney has joined #isdgfamtalks
DX_Zoi> As did we. I hope this is not a problem, as we didnt realize you had it.
Trip> ahh
DX_Zoi> hello Octavian
Trip> a deal with CGN?
DX_Zoi> yes. you?
Trip> yes
Arnelos> heh - CGN is doing well for themselves
DX_Zoi> they could use the upgrade cash.
Trip> 4DX: about your researching...
DX_Zoi> yes
Trip> we need to set up a plan on what to do now
Trip> so we don't waste any more time
DX_Zoi> understandable, although we can't do much until our Republic is founded
Trip> I believe it was decided that CFC should start researching a tech at a 40 turn pace
Trip> yes, you can actually
Trip> if you start on a tech now and set a city to 1 scientist, then you can start your 40 turn research while still in Anarchy
DX_Zoi> I will see which city has the smartest citizens and let Wizard know
Trip> yes
Trip> that is a good idea
Trip> after that, you need to start building up cash to help us research
Trip> the techs coming up are very expensive
Trip> and we are not as strong as CGN or GWT, so we will need a lot of gold to keep pace
DX_Zoi> I will bring this idea to our citizens. I am pretty certain they will approve.
Trip> good
Trip> we also need to set up a plan where you will send us a certain amount of gold every few turns in order to keep our deficit research going
Trip> perhaps the first amount can be sent once we finish Invention to begin our next tech
* GBM has joined #ISDGFAMtalks
Trip> welcome GBM
GBM> gi
GBM> hi
Arnelos> hey GBM
* GBM didn't sleep much
DX_Zoi> You will be doing defeicit research. What kind of Tech turnover are you projecting by doing so? This is something we will not be able to do until we are out of Anarchy
GBM> ahhh, tech aid
DX_Zoi> Until we know our numbers coming out of Republic, it will be hard to tell what we can come up with
Trip> yes, correct
Trip> what do you have currently?
Trip> we have a fair sum of gold built up now, but it will not last long
DX_Zoi> Only 120g IIRC
Trip> well, better than nothing
Trip> how long before you get to Republic? 4 turns?
GBM> 3
Trip> okay, that's good
DX_Zoi> I am guessing it will be about that
Trip> we finish Invention in 10
Trip> so you have 7 turns to build up gold in addition to the 120 you have now
Trip> how much do you think you might be making?
Trip> 30 gold per turn?
GBM> above that
DX_Zoi> Possibly
* WhiteBandit has quit IRC (Quit: )
Trip> really?
GBM> if unit costs dont impede
Trip> how many units do you have?
Trip> I remember when Apolyton first changed to Republic we had a BUNCH of units
DX_Zoi> I was factoring in unit costs.
Trip> we were actually making LESS than when we were in Despotism
DX_Zoi> and I am sure they will impede
DX_Zoi> Funny how that works... ;o
Trip> hehe, yes
Trip> how many units total do you have?
DX_Zoi> If you'd like, I can also see what our research rate would be if we bumped up reserch
Trip> based upon that we might be able to determine how much you might be able to contribute once you're out of Anarchy
DX_Zoi> I don't have that information in front of me, Trip, but I can get it.
Octavian|C3C-PBEM-Tourney> We didn't have that many units, did we?
Trip> I forget how many we had when we changed to Republic
GBM> fewer than three per city, IIRC
Trip> I will look at that information
Octavian|C3C-PBEM-Tourney> IIRC, we were under the allowed limit under despotism.
Trip> so we can compare
Trip> Octavian: we were we when we changed to Republic, but we were still making less...
DX_Zoi> How many units do you have?
Trip> argh
Trip> brb, I need to restart
Trip> IE isn't working and I'm out of memory
DX_Zoi> I hate that
* Octavian_X has joined #isdgfamtalks
Trip> I'll be back in about 5 minutes
DX_Zoi> hello, Octavian
DX_Zoi> ok
DX_Zoi> wait a minute
Trip> in the meantime you can look up your unit #, GNP, GPT (before Anarchy) etc.
Trip> so we can compare
Trip> hm?
DX_Zoi> my game usually crashes my computer when I am in chat
DX_Zoi> can anybody from CFC look up this info?
Trip> anyways, I'm restarting
Trip> I'll be back in a few minutes
DX_Zoi> ok, Ill see what I can do
Trip> thanks
Trip> brb
* Trip has quit IRC (Quit: )
GBM> I'll try to look it uo
Octavian_X> Sorry, but I'm setting up a PBEM tourney atm...
Arnelos> geesh... how do I get an avatar to work properly at 1BC?
Arnelos> I've selected an avatar, but it won't show
GBM> I'll go by 280AD
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
[16:27] *Trip* okay, I'm back
[16:28] *GBM* we could make 30gpt at 280AD
[16:29] *GBM* had 32 of an allowable 35 units
[16:29] *Trip* alright, one second
[16:29] *Trip* I'm looking up some information now also
[16:29] *GBM* can you give us the same?
[16:29] *Trip* what was your GNP?
[16:30] *GBM* a feeble 53 mil
[16:30] *Trip* how much corruption?
[16:30] *Trip* I have some estimates on our own
[16:31] *GBM* ok
[16:31] *Trip* but unfortunately I cannot be sure, since my main computer is broken
[16:31] *Trip* and I'm on a Pentium I 133 mHz and can't really install or run the game
[16:31] *GBM* how to calculate, just count it all up (for curruption)
[16:31] *GBM* oh ok
[16:31] *Trip* if you go to the F1 screen it should show you near the top how much of your GNP is lost to corruption just right there
[16:32] *Trip* we are currently making 25 GPT
[16:32] *GBM* corruption = 13
[16:32] * Octavian|C3C-PBEM-Tourney has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[16:32] *Trip* number of units... uhh... something like 70 or 80
[16:32] *GBM* lol
[16:32] *GBM* shows how much GCA set us back
[16:32] *Trip* hehe
[16:33] * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:33] *Trip* I'm going to look up our information back when we changed to Republic
[16:33] *Trip* gimme a sec
[16:33] * Octavian_X has joined #isdgfamtalks
[16:33] *GBM* WB
[16:34] *Trip* hey GBM, what is your GNP now?
[16:34] *Trip* you have a couple more cities
[16:34] *GBM* errr... zero
[16:35] *GBM* you would assume...
[16:35] *Trip* it shouldn't be 0
[16:35] *Trip* MFG is 0
[16:35] *Trip* GNP is still a real number
[16:35] *GBM* I'll see
[16:35] *Trip* should be like 56 or so
[16:35] *DX_Zoi* I need to get going. I will PM Togas tonite with any other matters that need discussion.
[16:36] *DX_Zoi* Unless you guys take care ofi t all here.....
[16:36] *Trip* hehe
[16:36] *Trip* okay Zoi
[16:36] *GBM* bye DZ
[16:36] *Trip* I will continue talking with GBM about the tech stuff
[16:36] *GBM* trip - yes, 56
[16:37] *Trip* cool, I was right
[16:37] *Trip* when we changed to Republic we had a GNP of 66
[16:37] *GBM* If you want, I could count the GNP that we we will get before corruption
[16:37] *GBM* I'll count it now, give me a while
[16:37] *Trip* wait, no
[16:37] *Trip* that is before corruption
[16:38] *DX_Zoi* take care, gentlemen. I will be in contact again soon.
[16:38] *Trip* GNP is all gold made BEFORE corruption
[16:38] * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Quit: See you at the doughnut shop...)
[16:38] *Trip* MFG is shields per turn AFTER waste
[16:38] * DX_Zoi has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[16:39] *GBM* an extra 36 trade per turn will be generated
[16:39] *GBM* before libraries and such
[16:39] *Trip* ahh
[16:40] * Bootstoots has quit IRC (Quit: )
[16:40] *Trip* 36 is what?
[16:40] *Trip* GNP without corruption and Libraries, etc.?
[16:40] *GBM* is everybody leaving me?
[16:40] *Trip* haha
[16:40] *GBM* yeah, we'll get an extra 36GNP getting into repub
[16:42] *GBM* of course, that is all going to go crazy, because we will be expanding rather quickly
[16:42] *Trip* right
[16:42] *Trip* 66 GNP... 19 corruption... which is 47 income
[16:43] *Trip* for us, the turn before going into anarchy to change to Republic
[16:43] *Trip* I'm having OPD look up how many units we had
[16:44] *GBM* ok
[16:44] *GBM* we'll, I'll be back in 5
[16:44] *Trip* you had 56 GNP, 13 corruption for 43 income
[16:44] *Trip* okay
[16:44] *Trip* I'll run through some more numbers
[16:45] *Trip* you guys had 32 units
[16:45] *Trip* we had... *insert elevator music*
[16:46] *Trip* after changing to republic our GNP was 123
[16:47] *Trip* 31 corruption for a total income of 92
[16:47] *Trip* increase of income was x1.96
[16:48] *Trip* so your income should be ~84 once you change to Republic
[16:50] *Trip* 84 income - 32 units - 13 improvements should give you... *drum roll*
[16:50] *Trip* 39 GPT
[16:50] *GBM* back
[16:50] *Trip* welcome back
[16:50] *GBM* not bad
[16:50] *Trip* will you have to use the luxury slider though?
[16:51] *GBM* unless you have a harbour by then, so we can trade
[16:51] *Trip* we will have a harbor very soon
[16:51] *Trip* but will you?
[16:51] *GBM* we already do
[16:51] *GBM* multiple ones, actually
[16:51] *Trip* do you?
[16:51] *Trip* haha
[16:51] *Trip* which cities?
[16:51] *Trip* I haven't been able to look at the save lately
[16:52] *GBM* understandably...
[16:52] * Arnelos has quit IRC (Quit: )
[16:52] *GBM* IIRC, in Kuiagblao Hian (spelling :/) and another city
[16:52] *GBM* Zhi Gang, too
[16:53] *GBM* Kuangbiao Haian is the spelling (damn chinese language!)
[16:53] *Trip* ahh
[16:53] *Trip* cool
[16:54] *Trip* we should have a Harbor in a few turns
[16:54] *Trip* let me check
[16:54] *GBM* you should try to translate our names - they will be getting interesting rather soon
[16:54] *Trip* hehe
[16:55] *Trip* we will have a Harbor in 3 more turns
[16:55] *GBM* perfect timing
[16:55] *Trip*
[16:56] *Trip* have you played this turn yet?
[16:56] *Trip* we sent it to you last night?
[16:56] *GBM* we should start trading up to 40gpt for a lux then
[16:56] *GBM* I asked somebody else to, but nobody did
[16:56] *Trip* hehe
[16:56] *GBM* DZ said he might
[16:56] *Trip* well, make sure you set a city to a scientist and begin researching something
[16:56] *Trip* you can get started while still in Anarchy
[16:57] *Trip* for 40-turn research
[16:57] *GBM* yeah
[16:57] *GBM* what shall we 40turn on?
[16:57] *GBM* well first, what options do we have?
[16:58] *GBM* we should do it on the most expensive, least needed tech
[16:58] *Trip* right
[16:59] *Trip* I think the only option right now may be Monarchy :P
[16:59] *Trip* what branches off from Education?
[17:00] *Trip* Printing Press?
[17:00] *GBM* Astronomy and banking
[17:00] *GBM* and music theory
[17:00] *Trip* what are the requirements for Printing Press?
[17:00] *GBM* Theology
[17:00] *Trip* ahhh...
[17:00] *Trip* yes
[17:00] *Trip* you should start on Monarchy then
[17:01] *Trip* there are no techs that you can do now besides that that won't get researched soon anyways
[17:01] *GBM* ok, but what would we do with it?
[17:01] *Trip* well
[17:01] *Trip* Monarchy allows the building of the Hanging Gardens wonder
[17:01] *Trip* and it allows a second-tier government besides Republic with no War Weariness
[17:01] *Trip* in case GCA stays at war with us forever, or something fun like that...
[17:01] *GBM* hmm, might be worth it
[17:01] *Trip* or GWT
[17:02] *Trip* or
[17:02] *Trip* if you could get Theology from CGN, you could start on Printing Press in ~10 turns when they finish
[17:02] *Trip* but you wouldn't be able to do any research until then
[17:02] *GBM* maybe
[17:02] *Trip* but you'd have to get Theology too
[17:02] *Trip* but we'll both need the gold...
[17:03] *Trip* so you should start on Monarchy for now
[17:03] *GBM* I take it you have Chivvy?
[17:03] *Trip* yes
[17:03] *GBM* I'll start the 40-turn monarchy as soon as I can
[17:03] *Trip* great
[17:03] *Trip* sounds good
[17:04] *Trip* after that you can do Music Theory or Printing Press then
[17:04] *Trip* we will be doing Education fairly soon
[17:04] *Trip* which allows more options for your 40-turn research
[17:05] *Trip* once you get to Republic we can set up a GPT for Dyes deal
[17:06] *Trip* and once we finish Invention you can send us a lump sum to help out additionally
[17:06] *GBM* ok
[17:06] *Trip* does that sound good?
[17:06] *GBM* all agreeable
[17:06] *Trip* great
[17:06] *Trip* I'll post it to my team
[17:07] *Trip* and we can get something fully official agreed to before you get out of Anarchy
[17:08] *GBM* for sure
[17:09] *GBM* so what has been discussed today? (just a recap)
[17:09] *Trip* tech agreement was the main facet of the discussion
[17:10] *GBM* ok
[17:10] *Trip* we also had a bit of a familiarization chat with DX_Zoi, since he is now our new ambassador
[17:10] *Trip* I think that was the gist of it
[17:10] *GBM* ok
[17:10] *GBM* who was the old one?
[17:11] *Trip* Goonie, I think
[17:11] *GBM* no wonder a new one was needed
[17:11] *GBM* I think somebody scared him off
[17:11] *Trip* haha
[17:11] *Trip* that may be for the best
[17:11] * opd has quit IRC (Quit: )
[17:12] *GBM* still, one less active member in our team...
[17:12] *Trip* true
[17:13] *GBM* I'll be lurking here indefinitely, but for now, bye
[17:14] *Trip* great
[17:14] *Trip* thanks for coming
[17:14] *Trip* 'Til lata |
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
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Another chat with CFC.
quote:
[21:53] *DX_Zoi* I just sent an email to Arnelos. We have an Invalid save File.
[21:53] *DX_Zoi* I can't play it....do you have access to save so you can send it?
[21:59] *Trip* hmmm
[21:59] *Trip* no I don't
[22:00] *Trip* I'll let him know if he comes online
[22:00] *DX_Zoi* I just reloaded it so I will try it again......so what did I miss?
[22:00] *DX_Zoi* Had a dinner appointment......
[22:01] *Trip* nothing much
[22:01] *Trip* I continued talking with GBM about the tech deal
[22:01] *DX_Zoi* what does he think of it?
[22:01] *Trip* we basically agreed that CFC should start 40-turn research on Monarchy this turn with a scientist in one city
[22:01] *Trip* in a few turns we will have a Harbor built, so we can set up a GPT (from you guys) for Dyes (from us) per turn deal
[22:02] *DX_Zoi* why Monarchy? How does that get Gunpowder to CGN?
[22:02] *Trip* once that Harbor is built and once you guys are in Republic
[22:02] *Trip* DX_Zoi: it doesn't really affect Gunpowder at all really...
[22:02] *Trip* that's just another part of our tech arrangement
[22:02] *Trip* you guys will do 40 turn techs, gifting us your gold so we can research faster
[22:02] *Trip* then once the tech is complete, we give it to you
[22:02] *Trip* Monarchy will be the first of those 40-turn techs
[22:04] *DX_Zoi* sounds like a plan...how does CGN play into this? Are they gifting techs or gold at all?
[22:05] *Trip* nope
[22:05] *Trip* CGN will be independent of this
[22:05] *Trip* however, we will be sending them Invention when we are done with it so they can begin Gunpowder
[22:06] *DX_Zoi* I am only wondering if we could research Monarchy faster than 40 turns
[22:07] *DX_Zoi* Although that would cut into your gpt rom us, you would get the tech faster
[22:07] *Trip* well, that's the thing
[22:07] *Trip* you just said it
[22:07] *Trip* it will slow down the IMPORTANT techs that we are doing
[22:07] *DX_Zoi* Once again, I would have to crunch some numbers once we enter Republic
[22:07] *Trip* to do it in less than 40 turns will probably require at least 15 or 20 GPT
[22:07] *Trip* which is a huge dent
[22:08] *Trip* our main research effort is what we will be doing
[22:08] *Trip* what you guys do in 40 turns will just be "icing on the cake"
[22:09] *DX_Zoi* I can see that
[22:10] *Trip* it wouldn't be a problem
[22:10] *Trip* but researching it any faster than 40 turns actually takes a sizable amount of cash
[22:10] *Trip* Monarchy is a pretty expensive tech, and that's just the cheapest one
[22:10] *DX_Zoi* But still...why Monarchy? Is there a need for that anymore? I guess its a nice fallback plan but......
[22:11] *Trip* what would you suggest instead?
[22:11] *Trip* yes, Monarchy isn't all that attractive, I admit, but it allows us a government to go to, if, say GCA doesn't make peace, WW gets bad, GWT attacks, etc.
[22:11] *Trip* and it also allows the building of the Hanging Gardens
[22:12] *Trip* not huge concerns, I agree, but there's not really anything else :P
[22:12] *DX_Zoi* I would have to look at the tech tree
[22:12] *Trip* right now the tech tree is very linear
[22:13] *Trip* once we get Education it spreads out more, but that won't be for a bit still
[22:13] *DX_Zoi* exactly
[22:13] *Trip* it'd probably be at least 20 turns
[22:13] *Trip* and by then you could be half done with Monarchy
[22:14] *DX_Zoi* so how fast can you pump out these techs then? one every 8-10 turns?
[22:14] *Trip* yes, about that
[22:14] *DX_Zoi* Have you determined what gpt you will need from us?
[22:15] *Trip* even if you do decide to change to another tech once we get Education, you can at least start doing Monarchy now and change later... won't hurt anything
[22:15] *Trip* DX_Zoi: ideally at least 35 GPT if you could provide it, or 30
[22:15] *Trip* even then we'd be providing the vast bulk of the gold
[22:15] *Trip* 80+ of our own every turn
[22:15] *DX_Zoi* true
[22:16] *DX_Zoi* that sounds more than fair
[22:16] *Trip* yes
[22:16] *Trip* so the more you can provide the better
[22:17] *Trip* I ran through some calculations earlier with some information provided by GBM
[22:17] *Trip* I estimated that you would make ~39 GPT under Republic
[22:17] *Trip* that way you should be able to get us a 35 GPT deal and we would provide you with Dyes
[22:17] *Trip* once you get to Republic and we finish our Harbor in a few turns
[22:17] *DX_Zoi* at 0 science? did you figure for possible luxury tax?
[22:18] *Trip* yes, at 0 science
[22:18] *Trip* you shouldn't need any luxuries on the slider when we provide you with Dyes
[22:18] *DX_Zoi* good point
[22:19] *Trip* you have silks, correct?
[22:19] *Trip* I forget
[22:19] *DX_Zoi* although having to remeber all theseChinese names is causing some of the citizens to get unruly. I hope the Dyes will be enough.
[22:19] *Trip* hehe
[22:20] *Trip* you could always build more Settlers too
[22:20] *Trip* turning up the luxury slider for just 1 city is rather wasteful
[22:20] *DX_Zoi* I thought yu had all the Silks
[22:20] *DX_Zoi* I hate that I can't chat and access the save at the same time.
[22:21] *DX_Zoi* Speaking of the Silks........
[22:22] *Trip* don't you have screenshots at your forum?
[22:23] *DX_Zoi* some, although I can't tell if one of cities was built on Silsk....hold on
[22:23] *Trip* I know we have all the Dyes, but I thought you had some Silks...
[22:24] *DX_Zoi* I think we may too...almost there
[22:26] *DX_Zoi* Nope, we have Furs and Incense
[22:26] *DX_Zoi* No Silks
[22:27] *Trip* hmmm
[22:27] *Trip* how long before you will?
[22:28] *DX_Zoi* Now here is the question.......
[22:28] *DX_Zoi* I believe that all the Silks reside near you colony
[22:28] *Trip* yes
[22:29] *DX_Zoi* Was there ever an official decision on how we were to handle the Choke point situation?
[22:30] *DX_Zoi* Was anything ever ratified by Apolyton?
[22:30] *DX_Zoi* As of now, I believe we only have a gentleman's agreement, correct?
[22:30] *Trip* we will be removing our current city, and you will build a new one at the location directly W of our current one
[22:30] *Trip* I'm not sure if anything official has been decided or not
[22:31] *Trip* however, if you build there soon, then you still won't have access to the silks
[22:31] *DX_Zoi* Are you speaking of Equilibrium? or PoV?
[22:31] *Trip* and I believe you only have one Galley in the lake
[22:31] *Trip* Equilibrium
[22:32] *DX_Zoi* Yes
[22:32] *DX_Zoi* Why remove the city instead of gifting it? Just curious
[22:33] * ZargonX|gaming has quit IRC (Quit: Outta here)
[22:33] *Trip* some people at Apolyton have some qualms about security issues, so we're going to move the city (using a Settler, which helps us build another city too) and then build Fortresses nearby
[22:35] *DX_Zoi* So, basically we would control the northern chokepoint and you would control the southern?
[22:35] *Trip* correct
[22:35] *Trip* and each of our cities would be on our respective sections of the continent
[22:36] *Trip* with your new city in the north being W of Equilibrium
[22:36] *DX_Zoi* I see
[22:36] * WhiteBandit has joined #ISDGFAMTALKS
[22:36] * ChanServ sets mode: +o WhiteBandit
[22:37] *Trip* how long before you would have a Settler ready to rebuild that city, or a city for those silks?
[22:37] *DX_Zoi* Speaking of security concerns, some of our citizens are curious about the two Medieval Infantry south of your colony. Is that just a barb watch?
[22:37] *Trip* correct
[22:37] *Trip* and to watch for the GCA Galley
[22:37] *Trip* we don't want them landing units on our road between our colony and Equilibrium... could be bad...
[22:38] *DX_Zoi* Very well, although our Swordsman is on the case.....they are fortified there correct?
[22:38] *Trip* one is fortified on a hill, another is looking for barbs
[22:38] *Trip* people at Apolyton were equally interested in your elite Swordsman heading for our colony
[22:39] *DX_Zoi* Same thing then. Never meant any harm.....
[22:41] *DX_Zoi* Do you have any idea how to log chats? I am pretty much a novice with this stuff, but am learning fast.
[22:41] *Trip* are you using mIRC?
[22:41] *DX_Zoi* alas, no
[22:41] *Trip* hmmm
[22:41] *DX_Zoi* in your java room
[22:41] *Trip* ahh
[22:41] *WhiteBandit* [DX_Zoi VERSION reply]: JPilot IRC Java Client 2.42.1
[22:41] *Trip* you have to use mIRC in order to log stuff
[22:42] *Trip* there appears to be a barb camp a few tiles south of your Swordsman now
[22:42] *DX_Zoi* yes, we are aware of it. I am pushing to eliminate all Fog of War as we speak.
[22:45] *DX_Zoi* Barbs are almost as troublesome as GCA was......
[22:45] *DX_Zoi* though a bit more civilized.
[22:46] *Trip* hehe
[22:46] *Trip* I remember how that barb uprising caused you a few problems
[22:46] *DX_Zoi* actually, is there any way that you can log this chat and send it to me?
[22:47] *Trip* sure
[22:48] * Togas has joined #isdgfamtalks
[22:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Togas
[22:48] *DX_Zoi* thank you....
[22:49] *DX_Zoi* you can just send it to the msdg email that you send our saves to....
[22:49] *DX_Zoi* Hello Togas
[22:49] *Togas* greetings
[22:49] *DX_Zoi* I am the Ambassador from CFC, if you havent heard
[22:50] *Togas* Ahhhh, didn't recognize you
[22:50] *Trip* okay DX_Zoi
[22:50] *DX_Zoi* brand new to the gig
[22:50] *DX_Zoi* thank you, Trip. I am taking an mIRC crash course next week.
[22:51] *Trip* hehe
[22:51] *Trip* yes, mIRC is superior to java in most every way
[22:51] *Togas* lesson #1 ... hang out in this chatroom and interesting things will happen
[22:51] *Togas* anyone who is anyone in the ISDG stops in here to chat
[22:51] *Trip* brb
[22:52] *DX_Zoi* Except in its user-friendliness
[22:53] *Trip* once you figure out how to use it its quite easy
[22:53] *Trip* and much more functional than Java
[22:53] *DX_Zoi* Yes, I have seen some of the activity here
[22:53] *DX_Zoi* I know...I just need that one stepping off point
[22:53] *Togas* once you program in the macros, etc, it's much more functional
[22:53] * BigFree|Away is now known as BigFree
[22:54] *DX_Zoi* wow, everyone is showing up just as I need to get going
[22:54] *DX_Zoi* I can stay for a few minutes more though
[22:54] *Trip* hehe
[22:55] *Trip* people may be here now, but doesn't seem to be much going on anyways
[22:55] *DX_Zoi* that's fine. I believe that you and I discussed some of the main things on peoples' minds.
[22:56] *DX_Zoi* I will bring this info back to my countrymen, and please send me that log(to jog my memory)
[22:56] *Togas* if you ever want to chat with us SOMEONE should be in this channel
[22:57] *Togas* we try to keep it staffed
[22:57] *DX_Zoi* You can feel free to post this for your citizens as well
[22:58] *DX_Zoi* That's cool. I will try to avoid dropping by unannounced unless its something real important.
[22:58] *Togas* unannounced is fine, that's what we're here for
[22:58] *Togas* but announced usually brings a larger crowd
[22:58] *Trip* yes
[22:58] *Trip* and if there's no one around when you want to chat, come back in an hour or two
[22:59] *DX_Zoi* When can I expect that chat log? I will try to be more self-reliant on my next visit.
[22:59] *Trip* I can send you one in 10 minutes or so probably
[22:59] *Trip* email address is... msdg@civfanatics.com
[23:00] *Trip* is that right?
[23:00] *DX_Zoi* .net
[23:00] *DX_Zoi* everything else is ok
[23:00] *Trip* ahh
[23:00] *Trip* okay
[23:01] *DX_Zoi* Well thank you, Trip and Togas. It has been my pleasure
[23:01] *Togas* glad to have you
[23:01] *Trip* and ours
[23:01] *DX_Zoi* Until next time.....
[23:02] *Trip* one last thing
[23:02] *Trip* what is your forum name?
[23:02] *DX_Zoi* yes?
[23:02] *DX_Zoi* Donovan Zoi
[23:02] *Trip* ahh, okay, thanks
[23:02] *Trip* have a nice evening
[23:02] *DX_Zoi* you can PM me at Apolyton if you'd like
[23:02] *Trip* okay
[23:03] *DX_Zoi* same name at both
[23:03] *DX_Zoi* I take it that both your names are as advertised?
[23:03] *Trip* yep
[23:03] *Togas* yep
[23:04] *DX_Zoi* good deal.....I'll stay in touch. Good night
[23:04] *Trip* 'Til lata
[23:04] *Togas* night!
[23:04] * DX_Zoi has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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Chat with Donovan Zoi of CFC while Master Zen and I and I were trying to find a way to send CFC the turn (around MZ's connection problems).
It seems that Trip is still suffering from whatever connection issue put him offline last night and didn't show up for a scheduled talk with Donovan. Donovan Zoi has requested a reschedule for tomorrow evening.
Here's the chatlog (I also sent this to Donovan, as he requested):
quote:
DX_Zoi> hello
MZ[Playing_Turn]> hello
MZ[Playing_Turn]> what's up?
DX_Zoi> Spoke with Trip about meeting tonite
DX_Zoi> I see you are playing the save?
MZ[Playing_Turn]> yep
MZ[Playing_Turn]> should be done in about 15 min
DX_Zoi> did Trip tell you about this meeting?
MZ[Playing_Turn]> yeah
MZ[Playing_Turn]> althogh I've been having conection difficultes and didn't know if I'd make it
DX_Zoi> cool, I let you finish and check back soon.....
DX_Zoi> glad you could make it
MZ[Playing_Turn]> ok
* DX_Zoi has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
* DX_Zoi has joined #isdgfamtalks
* MZ has joined #isdgfamtalks
DX_Zoi> How are we doing. MZ?
Arnelos> turn is coming along
DX_Zoi> We may have to reschedule this meeting. I need to get up in five hours.
* MZen has joined #isdgfamtalks
DX_Zoi> Are any of you available between 430-7pm EST tomorrow?
Arnelos> probably not
DX_Zoi> How about same time tomorrw but I play the save and send you 25 gold accepted
DX_Zoi> This will give me time to assess Republic and fully present my findings to my people
Arnelos> I'll leave it to someone else to give you a response on that. I've just returned from several days of absence, so I confess I'm not entirely up to speed on that.
DX_Zoi> After which we will have a basis for negotiations
DX_Zoi> Is MZ there? Honestly I haven't had much contact with either of you.
Arnelos> MZ is having connection problems
Arnelos> he just finished the turn
MZen> yeah
MZen> my conection sux
DX_Zoi> you were saying....
* MZ[Playing_Turn] has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
* MZ has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
MZen> lol
MZen> my alter-ego's have left
DX_Zoi> hehe
MZen> Trip has been having conection problems himself, I believe that is the reason he's not here
MZen> all I know is that he wanted to chat about how much $$ CFC was going to contribute to our researching
DX_Zoi> Yes, I am aware of that.
DX_Zoi> Unfortunately I am in a situation where I need to get up for work in less than 5 hours
MZen> yes I understand
DX_Zoi> So my request is this:
DX_Zoi> Send me the save and I will play it to keep the game moving, sending you 25 gold accepted
* MZen has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
DX_Zoi> This will give me time to fully assess our new govrnment and bring a complete case to my prople
* MZen has joined #isdgfamtalks
Arnelos> DX_Zoi> This will give me time to fully assess our new govrnment and bring a complete case to my prople
Arnelos> err...
Arnelos> DX_Zoi> Send me the save and I will play it to keep the game moving, sending you 25 gold accepted
Arnelos> * MZen has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Arnelos> DX_Zoi> This will give me time to fully assess our new govrnment and bring a complete case to my prople
DX_Zoi> This will give me time to fully assess our treasury under Republic and will allow me to pitch your idea to my people with hard figures
DX_Zoi> Thx Arnelos
Arnelos> no problem
MZen> thanks
MZen> yes that would be good
Arnelos> MZ, I'll try to get what little bit of a chatlog I can of this chat, btw
MZen> thanks
DX_Zoi> Then before the next turn, we schedule a meeting to hammer out the details
MZen> half of it is my disconnecting/connecting
DX_Zoi> lol
MZen> that sounds perfect
Arnelos> sounds good to me
DX_Zoi> Can you email me a log too. I still havent masterd the wonders of mIRC yet
MZen> btw one more thing:
Arnelos> ok
DX_Zoi> yes?
Arnelos> addy?
MZen> my e-mail is giving me a lot of trouble, do you mind if I upload the save and send you a PM at CFC with a link to it?
DX_Zoi> That's fine, you can PM me here too
MZen> ah ok
MZen> what is your nick?
DX_Zoi> Donovan Zoi
MZen> ok
Arnelos> DX_Zoi - what is your e-mail addy (for the log)?
DX_Zoi> donovan_zoi@civfanatics.net
Arnelos> thanks
Arnelos> I'll send when we're wrapped up here
DX_Zoi> cool, how bout your emails?
DX_Zoi> addys?
Arnelos> arnelos@aol.com
Arnelos> MZ's is civ@masterzen.net
DX_Zoi> simple enough
DX_Zoi> So I will get a PM at Apolyton with the save, correct?
MZen> I'll try
* MZen is trying as we speak
Arnelos> MZ - you could always upload briefly to MZO
DX_Zoi> No rush, just checking....
DX_Zoi> so I know where to look
* MZ has joined #isdgfamtalks
MZ> kinda like that
Arnelos> ?
* MZ slaps MZen around a bit with Salma Hayek's boobs!
MZ> yey, opened the upload screen
* Arnelos slaps MZen around with the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo!
MZ> save uploaded!!
Arnelos> excellent
MZ> wait...
MZ> amazing how even the simple things can be so tough
Arnelos> if you have trouble with 'poly, just upload it to MZO
MZ> it every site
Arnelos> ah
MZ> it's the WWW as a whole
Arnelos> since the problem is clientside, right
MZ> yep
MZ> fortunately I get it fixed tomorrow in the afternoon
MZ> at least Irc has been more "stable"
Arnelos> I've had very similar experiences
Arnelos> even when my browser is shot to all hell, IRC works
MZ> yeah
Arnelos> or works better
MZ> port 6667 does wonders
MZ> hey Donovan:
MZ> http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ma...onians360AD.SAV
MZ> get it now before it's too late!!!
* Arnelos is currently working on a spreadsheet that calculates all Parliament election results for me... it's a pain to build it, but it'll be cool when done
Arnelos> DX_Zoi
DX_Zoi> I am back....sorry
DX_Zoi> ok, loading.........thanks!
Arnelos> excellent
Arnelos> that should conclude this chat
* MasterZen has joined #isdgfamtalks
* ChanServ sets mode: +o MasterZen
Arnelos> saving a text copy of the log and sending
I belive a PM was sent
hopefully
* MZen has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
he said he's already downloading
ah great
sending DX the log and then posting it on 'poly
MZ, we still need to discuss turnchat times/guidelines and something over at MZO
your connectivity permitting, of course
* Togas has joined #isdgfamtalks
* ChanServ sets mode: +o Togas
e-mail sent to Donovan Zoi
already playing it. We have entered Republic
Thank you, Arnelos
Please get with Trip to decide our next meeting schedule
We will speak soon.
ok
cya
later.
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
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Short-ish chat with Donovan Zoi of CFC:
quote:
[22:31] [DX_Zoi] how's it going tonite?
[22:31] [ZargonX] oh, pretty good
[22:31] [DX_Zoi] hello, Trip
[22:31] [ZargonX] yourself?
[22:31] [Trip] hiya
[22:31] [DX_Zoi] great Are you guys playing the save?
[22:32] [Trip] yes
[22:32] [DX_Zoi] cool, not why I stopped by though
[22:33] [Trip] ah
[22:33] [DX_Zoi] has anyone from our FA Ministry approached you about a 3-way chat with CGN on Thursday?
[22:33] [Trip] I don't believe so
[22:34] [DX_Zoi] They said a PM was send, but I didn't get the "where" or "to who"
[22:34] [DX_Zoi] I told them I would have the best luck stopping in here myself
[22:34] [ZargonX] We did receive the PM.
[22:34] [ZargonX] I was under the impression Togas had responded
[22:34] [DX_Zoi] ok
[22:34] [Trip] I didn't get it
[22:34] [ZargonX] perhaps there was a mix-up on our end :eep:
[22:35] [DX_Zoi] could be
[22:35] [ZargonX] The chat is tentively scheduled for Thursday?
[22:35] [DX_Zoi] no biggie thoughg, I was just stopping in to see if anyone is available at 4pm EST(2100 GMT)
[22:36] [DX_Zoi] yes, I beleieve the Netatolians are already confirmed
[22:36] [ZargonX] Gotcha. I will post and find out who we can get to make it
[22:36] [ZargonX] I'm sure we'll be able to get one or two people, at least
[22:36] [DX_Zoi] We are also looking for a place to host the event
[22:36] [Trip] always open in here
[22:36] [ZargonX] We can set up a secure room, if need be
[22:37] * AdmiralACF has joined #isdgfamtalks
[22:37] [DX_Zoi] do you feel that is necessary? Its ok by me
[22:38] [DX_Zoi] this is fine as well, however
[22:38] [ZargonX] we're in the age of high-security; I just expect it everywhere
[22:39] [Trip] we can set things up in here
[22:39] [DX_Zoi] yes, but Espionage hasn't even been discoeverd yet
[22:39] [Trip] and open a new room
[22:40] [DX_Zoi] works for me. Can yourself or aneof the Consuls attend?
[22:40] [AdmiralACF] hello all
[22:40] [ZargonX] Let me check with the consuls...'
[22:40] [ZargonX] greetings, AdmiralACF!
[22:40] [DX_Zoi] hello, AACF
[22:41] [AdmiralACF] i'm a newbie around here, just trying to figure things out
[22:41] [Trip] DX: I should be able to come
[22:41] [Trip] if my connection allows it :P
[22:41] [DX_Zoi] So I've heard
[22:41] [Trip] hehe
[22:41] [Togas] Hello
[22:41] [DX_Zoi] Hi Togas
[22:42] [Togas] Sorry, was AFK
[22:42] [DX_Zoi] np, just trying to work out a time for a three way chat
[22:42] [Togas] I hadn't heard about a chat on Thursday
[22:42] [DX_Zoi] It is almost official; we just need further confirmation from CGN
[22:43] [DX_Zoi] although miccofl himself said that they could have someone available
[22:43] [Togas] Thurs is bad for me. My Mock Trial team competes that night. But I'm sure we can get someone from our team to drop in
[22:44] [DX_Zoi] That would be great
[22:45] [DX_Zoi] CGN had requested us to set up this chat, so it should be intersting
[22:46] [Togas] indeed
[22:47] * AdmiralACF has left #isdgfamtalks
[22:47] [DX_Zoi] Well, that's about it for now. You can PM me here at Apolyton with any updates in your particiaption level
[22:48] [DX_Zoi] username: Donovan Zoi
[22:48] [Togas] gotcha
[22:48] [Trip] any news on a higher GPT amount?
[22:48] [Togas] I think Trip here may be the one to attend the meeting
[22:49] [DX_Zoi] still working on it...we plan on building Markets, which wil help things out immensely
[22:49] [DX_Zoi] may have to stay the course for a few more turns
[22:50] [DX_Zoi] we are also trying to secure Theology from CGN
[22:51] [Trip] okay
[22:51] [DX_Zoi] If we do this, we may be able to switch our40 turn research to Printing Press
[22:51] [DX_Zoi] would that be a viable option? I am not sure what plans you have with CGN to get to Gunpowder
[22:52] [Trip] perhaps
[22:52] [Trip] have you started on Monarchy yet?
[22:52] [DX_Zoi] yes, we are about 8 turns in
[22:52] [DX_Zoi] but I would rather we all move up the tech tree
[22:53] [DX_Zoi] one of us each on PPress, Education and Gunpowder
[22:53] [Trip] that can work
[22:53] [DX_Zoi] this may be thing we prepare to discuss on Thursday
[22:53] [Trip] may hurt us if GCA never gives us peace with WW and all...
[22:54] [DX_Zoi] we have sent out a letter to GWT telling our side of the story, so that they can try to convince GCA to give pace
[22:55] [DX_Zoi] waiting for a response
[22:55] [Trip] hmmm
[22:55] [Trip] should be interesting to see how they respond...
[22:55] [DX_Zoi] I'm not expecting any miracles
[22:56] [DX_Zoi] question regarding Invention
[22:56] [Trip] okay
[22:58] [DX_Zoi] since we have only paid you 95g up to this point, when would we see that tech? Would you hold it until you felt you had a reasonable amount and if so what would that be?
[22:59] [Trip] I can't really say for sure
[22:59] [Trip] we are discussing the issue now
[22:59] [DX_Zoi] is that not your decision?
[22:59] [DX_Zoi] I see
[22:59] [Trip] if you could find a way to provide a greater GPT amount if your treasury allows it it would probably help things
[23:00] [Trip] after all, in order to research at a reasonable pace, we'll still have to research at beyond -35 GPT
[23:00] [DX_Zoi] what is public opinion of our deal at this point?
[23:00] [DX_Zoi] beut you are currently making gppt, correct?
[23:01] [Trip] yes, for a couple more turns
[23:01] [Trip] public opinion favors it the transfer of Invention but some are against it
[23:01] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jan 27 23:02:36 2004
Session Start: Tue Jan 27 23:04:02 2004
Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks
[23:05] [Trip] got disconnected
[23:06] [DX_Zoi] welcome back
[23:06] [Trip] thanks
[23:06] [Trip] what was the last thing you saw me say?
[23:06] [DX_Zoi] Our people are pretty much convinced that increasing the gpt is favorable
[23:07] [DX_Zoi] was the last thing I said
[23:07] [Trip] ah
[23:07] [DX_Zoi] yours was that some people favor the Invention trans and some dont
[23:07] [DX_Zoi] was there more?
[23:07] [Trip] do you have any idea when you might be able to increase the amount?
[23:07] [DX_Zoi] I can probably go to 40 right now
[23:08] [Trip] great
[23:08] [Trip] if you do that then the Invention deal will probably be sure of going through
[23:08] * Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jan 27 23:10:01 2004 |
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Seeing that noone posted that the chat was going on and where it was, I missed it. BUT, I was able to get a log from Bootshoots, but I don't know if it;s complete. I ask the Consuls/FAM to correct this.
quote:
Session Start: Thu Jan 29 15:49:11 2004
Session Ident: #demogame_cfc_embassy
[15:49] * Now talking in #demogame_cfc_embassy
[15:49] * Topic is '4Welcome to the Fanatikese Embassy - Trade Discussion - Joint Military Planning - Diplomatic Discussions'
[15:49] * Set by CivGeneral!~Simman198@2142b218. on Fri May 02 19:14:15
[15:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Bootstoots
[15:50] * EMP has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[15:50] [Cheetah> your back
[15:50] * miccofl has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[15:51] [EMP> lol sorry my computer blacked out
[15:51] [miccofl> Hello
[15:51] [EMP> hello
[15:51] [Cheetah> hi miccofl
[15:52] [Cheetah> welcome to the embassy channel of CFC
[15:52] [miccofl> Thanks
[15:54] [Cheetah> so, are anyone else coming from apolyton and cgn?
[15:54] [Trip> one of the other consuls was planning on coming
[15:54] [Cheetah> k
[15:54] [miccofl> I'm trying to get Furloaf connected now
[15:54] [Cheetah> good
[15:55] [Cheetah> I think Donovan Zoi and Zarn might show up too
[15:56] * Chieftess is now known as CT_Away
[15:56] * CT_Away is away: auto-away after 30m idle
[15:57] * Furloaf has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[15:57] [Cheetah> welcome Furloaf
[15:57] [Furloaf> Hello
[15:59] [Trip> hmmm
[15:59] [Trip> I'm just looking up some of GWT's city names
[16:00] [Trip> Flammburg = Flaming Castle
[16:00] [Cheetah> well - I guess we could start the chat about now... hopeing DZ or Zarn comes by soon
[16:00] [Trip> Parthemuende = Coastal Flow
[16:00] * CT_Away is now known as Chieftess
[16:00] * Chieftess is back after 3m: auto-away after 30m idle
[16:00] [Cheetah> still only two cities, or?
[16:00] [Trip> Kornholm = Grain cross-beam
[16:00] [Cheetah> Chieftess: will you be joining us?
[16:00] [Trip> of course, those are all rough translations
[16:01] [Trip> 4As my connection is quite bad, I may be disconnected 1 or more times during this chat... I will do my best to come back though
[16:01] [Cheetah> np
[16:01] [Cheetah> I'll have to go in 30 mins myself
[16:02] * Zarn has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:02] [Cheetah> Zarn
[16:02] [Zarn> Hi all
[16:02] [Cheetah> was afraid we'd have to start without you
[16:02] [Furloaf> Hello Zarn
[16:02] [miccofl> Hello
[16:02] [Zarn> My bro took my computer.
[16:03] [Zarn> I have to use this crummy one.
[16:04] [Zarn> Does anyone know, if anyone else is coming/
[16:04] [Cheetah> dunnno
[16:04] [Trip> MasterZen planned on coming
[16:04] [Trip> I'm not sure where he is now
[16:04] [Cheetah> hopeing DZ will show up
[16:04] [Cheetah> k
[16:04] [Trip> he said he'd be coming just a couple hours ago
[16:04] [Zarn> Do you guys want to hold off for a few minutes, to wait?
[16:04] [Cheetah> so we have Trip, Furloaf, miccofl, Zarn and Cheetah. anyone else activily present?
[16:04] [Trip> we can start in 5 more minutes, if that's alright
[16:05] [Zarn> okay
[16:05] [Cheetah> I hoped we could start pretty soon, I'll have to leave in 25 mins...
[16:06] [Cheetah> Bootstoots might join as well, but will be idling for now
[16:08] * Ginger_Ale has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:08] [Ginger_Ale> When does it start?
[16:09] [Cheetah> hehe
[16:09] [Bootstoots> in less than 5 minutes
[16:09] [Cheetah> about soon
[16:09] * RikMeleet has joined #demogame_CFC_embassy
[16:09] [Cheetah> Bootstoots: you'll be active as well?
[16:09] [Cheetah> have you joined us in the MSDG RikMeleet?
[16:10] [RikMeleet> I am registered for a year now; toatl posts = 0. But following it closely.
[16:10] [Cheetah> hehe k
[16:10] [Trip> okay
[16:11] [miccofl> I think all of our members have posted at least once
[16:11] [Ginger_Ale> I am not in the MSDG :mischief:
[16:11] [Cheetah> hehe
[16:11] [Trip> I don't know about us
[16:11] [Cheetah> miccofl: what is your title btw?
[16:11] [Trip> we have about 50 total active
[16:11] [miccofl> Premier
[16:12] [Cheetah> both of you?
[16:12] [Trip> hm?
[16:12] [miccofl> Furloaf is Minister of Labor
[16:12] [Cheetah> k
[16:12] * Bootstoots is now known as Boots_afk
[16:12] [miccofl> although I think he is after the Chief of Staff's job
[16:13] [Cheetah> hehe k
[16:13] [Cheetah> guess Boots_afk won't be active :P
[16:14] [Ginger_Ale> "[16:13] [Bootstoots> brb " -- from #civfanatics
[16:14] [Ginger_Ale> Shouldn't be *long*
[16:14] [Zarn> Are we ready to begin?
[16:14] [Cheetah> well... shall we start?
[16:14] [Cheetah> lets start
[16:15] [Trip> okay
[16:15] [Cheetah> CGN-Apolyton-CFC-Chat has started.
[16:15] [Cheetah> From Netatolia: Premier miccofl and Minister of Labor Furloaf
[16:15] [Cheetah> From Apolyton: Consul Trip
[16:15] [Cheetah> From Fanatikou: Foreign Minister Zarn, Justice of the Court Cheetah and RikMeleet
[16:15] [Cheetah> Logging enabled.
[16:15] [Cheetah> who wants to begin?
[16:15] [Trip> I'm just here for the food
[16:15] [EMP> lol
[16:15] [Cheetah> k
[16:16] [Cheetah> forgot EMP :/
[16:16] [EMP> awww
[16:16] [EMP> lol
[16:16] [Ginger_Ale> There is food here?! Oh, yeah, me
[16:16] [Zarn> First Issues should be about GWT then GCA
[16:16] [Cheetah> "You're not on my list. Get out!" :P
[16:16] [Cheetah> very well
[16:16] [EMP> lol
[16:16] [miccofl> GWT is on the move, or so it seems
[16:17] [Cheetah> how so?
[16:17] [Cheetah> have they started a new offensive?
[16:17] [miccofl> 21 MI, 1 Ansar, 12 Pikes, 5 Cats and 3 Workers began to move south last turn
[16:18] [miccofl> we assume they will be building as they go and we have 4-5 turns before we make contact
[16:18] [Cheetah> how far away from your border?
[16:18] [Cheetah> k
[16:19] [Cheetah> how come you know this btw?
[16:19] [miccofl> a lookout
[16:19] [Cheetah> of course...
[16:19] [Zarn> Do you have forces heading north now (for defense)?
[16:19] [miccofl> probably our last look as we recalled him last turn
[16:20] [miccofl> Boston and New Castle are fairly well stacked with more on the way
[16:20] [Trip> bongo should not be underestimated
[16:20] [Trip> GWT probably has a surprise or two hiding
[16:20] [Zarn> I think so too
[16:21] [miccofl> I expect there is an Ansar horde somewhere behind Flammburg
[16:21] [Cheetah> but you think you will be able to stop their offensive?
[16:21] [miccofl> close
[16:21] [miccofl> it will depend on how the RNG treats us
[16:21] * Boots_afk is now known as Bootstoots
[16:21] [Cheetah> hm
[16:22] [Cheetah> are GCA helping them?
[16:22] [miccofl> not that we have seen yet
[16:22] [Trip> this GWT force is nearly entirely 1-move based... they have 20+ Ansar hiding somewhere
[16:22] [Trip> even this current force is quite a threat, unfortunately
[16:22] [Trip> if GWT is able to land elsewhere with its real Ansar force...
[16:23] [Cheetah> that could be troublesome. how do you look at the situation in CGN miccofl?
[16:23] [miccofl> building up our Navy
[16:23] [miccofl> catching a lot of flak about it too
[16:23] [Trip> the front is thin
[16:23] [Trip> a strong navy will be worth more to you than 50 Knights
[16:23] [Zarn> well you should defend in both land and sea...
[16:24] [Cheetah> hm
[16:25] [miccofl> fortuantely our jungle in the west is well placed
[16:25] [Cheetah> good
[16:26] [Cheetah> you hav escouting ships to I suppose?
[16:26] [miccofl> in the west, we are hiding our ships in the east
[16:26] [Cheetah> k
[16:27] [Cheetah> so you will see them coming if they try a landing
[16:27] [miccofl> unless they dare to risk the ocean
[16:27] [Trip> seeing them is one thing, being able to stop a concerted effort is quite another
[16:27] [Trip> could you stop 5 Galleys with 10 Ansar in the west?
[16:27] [Furloaf> hence the naval buildup
[16:28] [miccofl> should be able to have 3-5 ships in each theatre within the next 6
[16:28] [miccofl> depends on how much argument I get
[16:29] [miccofl> and how much spare gold we can come up with
[16:30] [miccofl> we rushed pikes at New Castle and Boston last turn so I need to reign in expenditure
[16:30] [Trip> yes
[16:30] * Ginger_Ale has left #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:30] [Trip> a navy is very important though, as you personally know
[16:31] [Trip> hopefully the rest of your team will see its merit as well
[16:31] [Trip> with such a thin front there's only 2 options
[16:31] [Trip> frontal assault or amphibious landing
[16:31] * VJTD3 has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[16:32] [Cheetah> hm
[16:32] * VJTD3 has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[16:33] [Trip> anything else with GWT?
[16:34] [miccofl> not really, they know we can pay you to spy so it is doubtful they will leave units laying around where they can be seen
[16:34] [Trip> probably
[16:34] [Trip> GCA wasn't so smart though
[16:34] [miccofl> lol
[16:34] [Trip> :P
[16:34] [Trip> part of the reason we knew we could win the Battle of Algalord
[16:35] [Cheetah> hehe
[16:35] [Zarn> CFC has an unofficial statement to make on this issue concerning GWT
[16:35] [miccofl> We aren't planning on mounting an offensive until after Mil Trad
[16:36] [Cheetah> how long after?
[16:36] [Cheetah> with Cavalry, or with later units?
[16:36] [miccofl> as soon as we have enough Sipahi to tear them up
[16:36] [Zarn> CFC is currently neutral and is trying to open communication with GWT. However, if GWT starts a full invasion of CGN, CFC will come to CGN's aid, if requested.
[16:36] [Cheetah> hehe k
[16:37] [miccofl> water wings?
[16:37] [Trip> hehe
[16:37] [Cheetah> what??
[16:37] * DX_Zoi has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:37] [miccofl> Mighty long way to risk units with
[16:37] [Cheetah> hehe
[16:38] [DX_Zoi> hello, eveyone
[16:38] [DX_Zoi> sorry so late
[16:38] [Zarn> Hi
[16:38] [miccofl> Hello
[16:38] [Cheetah> well, I REALY hope you can hold out on you own untill Navigation :P
[16:38] [EMP> hi
[16:38] [Furloaf> hi
[16:38] [Cheetah> welcome DZ
[16:38] [miccofl> we hope to hold on longer than that
[16:38] [Cheetah> so do I
[16:38] [DX_Zoi> Hi miccofl, Emp, Furloaf, Cheetah
[16:39] [Zarn> Aid can be provided in more in just military means
[16:39] [miccofl> this is true
[16:39] [Trip> unless things change drastically, Netatolia should be fine
[16:40] [miccofl> we hope to have some muskets before the **** hits the fan
[16:40] [Cheetah> hehe
[16:41] [DX_Zoi> miccofl, sorry about putting off the theology trade
[16:41] [DX_Zoi> seems like we can settle this today, if you'd like
[16:41] [miccofl> ok
[16:41] [DX_Zoi> so what did I miss?
[16:42] [Cheetah> not much
[16:42] [DX_Zoi> How is the canal zone holding up?
[16:42] [Cheetah> miccofl are telling us Netatolia can stop a GWT offensive
[16:42] [miccofl> yeah, at least once or twice anyway
[16:42] [DX_Zoi> that's good to know
[16:43] [DX_Zoi> Is it a cold war, or are you taking casualties?
[16:43] [miccofl> they lost a galley a few turns back - never knew what hit it lol
[16:44] [DX_Zoi> hehe
[16:45] [DX_Zoi> So have we begun discussion about a three way tech initiative?
[16:45] [miccofl> not yet
[16:45] [Zarn> not yet
[16:45] [DX_Zoi> Is that why we are here today?
[16:45] * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Jan 29 16:45:38 2004
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the log is missing time here, so only Trip knows what happened then...
quote:
Session Start: Thu Jan 29 16:45:54 2004
Session Ident: #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:45] * Now talking in #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:45] * Topic is '4Welcome to the Fanatikese Embassy - Trade Discussion - Joint Military Planning - Diplomatic Discussions'
[16:45] * Set by CivGeneral!~Simman198@2142b218. on Fri May 02 19:14:15
[16:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Bootstoots
[16:46] [DX_Zoi> Cool, and what about GCA?
[16:46] * CiverDan has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[16:46] [miccofl> I have authorization to attack on sight - or harrass; my choice
[16:47] * Bootstoots sets mode: +hh DX_Zoi Cheetah
[16:47] [Chieftess> hi CD!
[16:47] [CiverDan> Hey
[16:47] * Trip has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[16:47] [Cheetah> understood
[16:48] [DX_Zoi> I like it, miccofl
[16:48] [miccofl> We would rather make them declare war but they are will not move south
[16:49] [miccofl> Any word from mongoose201?
[16:49] [DX_Zoi> about?
[16:49] [Cheetah> nope
[16:49] [miccofl> forcing them to make peace with both of you
[16:50] [DX_Zoi> I don't see it happening
[16:50] [RikMeleet> 11,2[ Fanatican News Flash - 2150 BC ]1,0 Reminder to all the Fanaticans. Turnchat in 10 minutes.
[16:50] [DX_Zoi> thanks, Rik!
[16:50] [DX_Zoi> our SPDG game
[16:51] [Cheetah> I gotta go in 10 mins :/
[16:52] [miccofl> Well we still need to discuss Theology and wait for trip to make it back
[16:52] [Cheetah> yup
[16:52] [Cheetah> hope he comes back
[16:52] [DX_Zoi> we'll should we discuss that now?
[16:52] [miccofl> takes him anywhere from a minute to 15
[16:52] [DX_Zoi> I think he will
[16:52] [miccofl> might as well
[16:53] [DX_Zoi> well, as part of the to-be-discussed tech arrangement, I was hoping that we could begin a 40turn Printing Press
[16:53] [DX_Zoi> but we would need Theology first
[16:54] [miccofl> We were hoping you would be interested in the Printing Press route
[16:54] [DX_Zoi> Thing is, things are a bit tight at the moment
[16:54] * ShangMan has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[16:54] [DX_Zoi> I am thinking it makes the most sense
[16:54] [Cheetah> yes, we will probably go for printing press when we get theology
[16:54] [Zarn> I hope we do...
[16:54] [Cheetah> so, do Netatolia have a suggestion for a price?
[16:55] [DX_Zoi> Then one of would research Gunpowder and the other Education, correct?
[16:55] [Zarn> grrr stupid bold
[16:55] [Cheetah> yes
[16:55] * ShangMan has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[16:55] [miccofl> Our plan, once we get Invention, is to beeline for Mil Trad (hoping to do GP in 4)
[16:55] [Cheetah> k
[16:55] [Cheetah> that was fast
[16:55] [DX_Zoi> wow, what are you researching now?
[16:56] [Cheetah> "once we get Invention" ... :P
[16:56] [miccofl> Invention at 0%
[16:56] [miccofl> waiting on Apolyton
[16:56] [Cheetah> k
[16:56] [miccofl> current timetable is GP in 7
[16:56] [DX_Zoi> well, Poly said they were resaerching Invention
[16:57] [Cheetah> but should we discuss a price for theology?
[16:57] [DX_Zoi> and I was wondering why you both were
[16:57] [miccofl> we are building up the gold we will need to do it in 4
[16:57] [DX_Zoi> if thats the case
[16:57] [DX_Zoi> got it
[16:57] [DX_Zoi> is Conatct with GCA wrth anything to you?
[16:58] [miccofl> not really
[16:58] [DX_Zoi> *worth
[16:58] [DX_Zoi>
[16:58] [DX_Zoi> had to try...they are fun to chat with
[16:58] [DX_Zoi> 
[16:58] [miccofl> Their conduct has made them a pariah nation in our eyes
[16:58] [Zarn> I think they would pay not to have contact with them
[16:59] [EMP> lol
[16:59] [DX_Zoi> You should have seen them before that move
[16:59] [Bootstoots> let's extort money from CGN in exchange for not giving them contact
[16:59] * Octavian_X has joined #demogame_CFC_Embassy
[16:59] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Octavian_X
[16:59] [DX_Zoi> there we go: NO contact with GCA for Theology?
[16:59] [Cheetah> haha
[16:59] [EMP> lol
[16:59] [CiverDan> bbl
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
[17:00] [Zarn> Hi Oct
[17:00] [miccofl> tempting, but no
[17:00] [DX_Zoi> seriously, I am not sure if we could lump sum more than 100-150
[17:00] [RikMeleet> 11,2[ Fanatican News Flash - 2150 BC ]1,0 It's time
[17:00] [Octavian_X> Hey Zarn
[17:00] [Octavian_X> And everyone else, apparently.
[17:00] [Cheetah> welcome Octavian_X
[17:00] * Bootstoots sets mode: +h Zarn
[17:00] [miccofl> Hello
[17:00] [DX_Zoi> Plus we have a gpt arrangement to get Invention from Poly
[17:00] [Bootstoots> hope nobody minds me halfopping the FA minister
[17:01] [DX_Zoi> hey Oct
[17:01] [Octavian_X> I would've done the same.
[17:01] * RikMeleet has left #demogame_CFC_embassy
[17:01] [Zarn> I have no problem with it
[17:01] [DX_Zoi> makes sense to me
[17:01] [DX_Zoi> so our gpt is minimal
[17:02] [DX_Zoi> Yet in order to start on Printing Press, we will need it
[17:02] * EMP has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:02] [DX_Zoi> Unfortunately, we can't trade luxes yet
[17:03] [DX_Zoi> With permission of the CFC people, would you be interested in a luxury to be named later(once we are hooked up)?
[17:03] [DX_Zoi> along with a small outlay of gold?
[17:04] [miccofl> How small, I'm already havfing doubts about GP in 4 now
[17:05] [DX_Zoi> well, the 100+ LS, along with 5-8 gpt
[17:05] [DX_Zoi> Thats at least 200 plus the Lux
[17:05] [DX_Zoi> ther's a starting point
[17:05] [DX_Zoi> You can see why I didn't send this back in-game
[17:06] [miccofl> yep
[17:06] [Cheetah> hehe
[17:06] * EMP has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:06] [DX_Zoi> Plus we get to start on PP
[17:07] [DX_Zoi> Let me know your preffered terms, so I can see how far off we are
[17:07] [miccofl> looking like 6 turns
[17:07] [DX_Zoi> 6 turns for Gunpowder?
[17:07] [miccofl> yes
[17:08] [DX_Zoi> I wosh we could do better, and may be able to in the future
[17:08] [DX_Zoi> *wish
[17:08] [Cheetah> we could sue GCA and try to get some money of them :P
[17:09] [DX_Zoi> GCA paper is severely devalued, I've heard. :scoff:
[17:09] [DX_Zoi>
[17:09] * VJTD3 has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:09] [Zarn> I use it for toilet paper...
[17:09] [DX_Zoi> yikes.....I don't!
[17:10] [miccofl> too rough?
[17:10] [DX_Zoi> dont know where its been
[17:10] [DX_Zoi> ok, anyway
[17:10] * VJTD3 has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:10] [Cheetah> well
[17:10] [DX_Zoi> give me an idea on your terms, miccofl
[17:10] [Cheetah> teacher is throwing me out of the computer room :P
[17:10] [Cheetah> I'm afraid I will have to leave this chat :/
[17:11] [DX_Zoi> My guess is that we are going to be behind the 8 ball for some time concerning tech
[17:11] [Cheetah> will be logging everything though. anyone who desire a log, just pm me
[17:11] [DX_Zoi> That prospect should change in about 15-25 turns for us, though
[17:12] [miccofl> I'm going to have to discuss it further with the team
[17:12] [DX_Zoi> make sure to post it in your threead, Cheetah. Thanks
[17:12] [DX_Zoi> Understandable
[17:12] [DX_Zoi> Can you give me an idea of how close we are though?
[17:13] [DX_Zoi> My goal is not to lowball you through the Middle Ages
[17:14] [Zarn> Since we are just gettin gout of war with GCA, we stil are not up to date, but we are planning on using our industrial trait to develop and get back on track. Until then, we have nothing to offer.
[17:14] [miccofl> We were looking for about 4-500 gold
[17:14] [DX_Zoi> well, we curently stand at 200-250 with 20 turns of Lix when we are connected
[17:15] [DX_Zoi> Lux
[17:15] * static has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:15] [DX_Zoi> brb
[17:15] [miccofl> understood, I just need to run the math by the team
[17:16] * static has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:17] [DX_Zoi> ok
[17:17] [Zarn> ok
[17:18] [CiverDan> back
[17:18] [DX_Zoi> Well, that's all I had. What else is one the agenda today?
[17:18] [DX_Zoi> *on
[17:19] [miccofl> I had hoped Trip would have made it back
[17:20] [DX_Zoi> me too
[17:20] [miccofl> not that there would be any revelations, but to formalize the tech arrangements
[17:20] [Zarn> maybe we should have another chat just for the techs, since Poly doesn't have a rep
[17:20] * Trip has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[17:20] [miccofl> you spoke too soon
[17:20] [CiverDan> there he is
[17:20] [DX_Zoi> heyhey
[17:20] [Zarn>
[17:20] [Trip> forgive my connection
[17:20] [DX_Zoi> wb Trip
[17:21] [Trip> thank you
[17:21] [Zarn> okay, Trip. What is Poly's take on the whole tech thing?
[17:22] [Trip> Currently
[17:22] [Trip> there is a problem
[17:22] [DX_Zoi> what is that
[17:22] [Zarn> ???
[17:23] [Trip> as more teams get the techs, it makes them cheaper for the GWT-GCA alliance
[17:23] [Trip> significantly
[17:23] [DX_Zoi> good point
[17:24] [Trip> up to 2 turns cheaper for each team that has it
[17:24] [Trip> if all three of us share techs at any point, it could almost cut tech costs in half for GWT
[17:25] [Trip> that being the case, Apolyton believes that we should do all we can to avoid this from happening
[17:25] [miccofl> at least you got rid of that damned library
[17:25] [Trip> GWT getting Gunpowder 5 turns sooner could have a huge impact
[17:25] [DX_Zoi> then maybe we should just use this program to help CGN get Gunpowder
[17:26] [DX_Zoi> and then return researching independently
[17:27] [Trip> I believe everything has been covered up to Gunpowder
[17:27] [Trip> so we should be okay then
[17:28] * SL3 has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[17:28] [Trip> oh
[17:28] [Trip> I'm not sure if this was brought up earlier or not
[17:28] [Trip> when I got cut off
[17:28] [Trip> about GWT
[17:28] [miccofl> Hey SL - guess my directions worked
[17:28] [Trip> it is most likely that they have their FP in Ruhrpott
[17:29] [SL3> yep
[17:29] [DX_Zoi> But since GP is of utmost imporatnce to CGN, maybe we should all put our work into getting it for them
[17:29] [miccofl> *4
[17:29] [miccofl> damn, that was supposed to go into the calculator
[17:30] [DX_Zoi> When Invention is discovered in 3-4 turns
[17:31] [DX_Zoi> Poly and CFC gift gpt to CGN so they can research faster
[17:31] [Trip> earlier miccofl led me to believe that CGN can do Gunpowder in 4 or 5 turns now by themselves
[17:31] [DX_Zoi> since we are across the pond, I would not be worried if CGN had the tech to themselves for awhile
[17:31] [Trip> though he said the details were sketchy
[17:31] [miccofl> with the current deal proposed by CFC for Theo, we will be about 12 gpt from doing it in 4
[17:32] [miccofl> if I figured that right
[17:32] [DX_Zoi> only adding 8gpt, Trip
[17:32] [DX_Zoi> +100 or so lump sum
[17:33] * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:33] [DX_Zoi> If we do this, then CGN can gift us the next tech they research
[17:33] [miccofl> he's gone again
[17:33] [DX_Zoi> does this make sense? just thought of it
[17:33] [DX_Zoi> doh
[17:34] [miccofl> 5 turns seems to be doable
[17:34] [DX_Zoi> what do you think, miccofl. We help you raesearch GP and yoou give us , I dunno, Education
[17:35] [miccofl> Not on our tech schedule
[17:35] * ShangMan has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:35] [DX_Zoi> thats right, you are beelining
[17:36] [DX_Zoi> to techs we wouldn't have
[17:36] [DX_Zoi> access to
[17:36] * ShangMan has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:38] * EMP has quit IRC (Quit: )
[17:39] [miccofl> The key to it all is "where is the saltpeter?"
[17:39] [DX_Zoi> So, if you can get GP in five, how can we assist you?
[17:39] [DX_Zoi> true dat
[17:39] [miccofl> not sure really
[17:40] [miccofl> got any spare bombers laying around?
[17:41] [Zarn> no, only a few ICBMs and a spaceship
[17:41] [DX_Zoi> If only
[17:41] * CiverDan has quit IRC (Quit: )
[17:41] [DX_Zoi> still have that light sabre, Zarn? : )
[17:42] * Furloaf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[17:42] [miccofl> There goes Furloaf, just the VP and me now
[17:43] * Trip has joined #demogame_cfc_embassy
[17:43] [DX_Zoi> what does Furloaf do at CGN?
[17:43] [DX_Zoi> ok, Trip is back
[17:43] [miccofl> Minister of Labor
[17:43] [DX_Zoi> cool
[17:44] [DX_Zoi> Trip?
[17:44] [Trip> hm?
[17:44] [Zarn> I'm not giving away my lightsaber
[17:44] [DX_Zoi> we never discussed total turns for our current Invention deal
[17:45] [DX_Zoi> and I would like to help CGN if possible and acquire Theology at the same time
[17:45] [Trip> total turns?
[17:46] [DX_Zoi> yes
[17:46] [DX_Zoi> for Invention only
[17:46] [Trip> what do you mean?
[17:46] [DX_Zoi> I would also like to know what the next tech is that you plan to research, since iCGN is handlking GP
[17:47] [DX_Zoi> man, typing
[17:48] [Trip> hehe
[17:48] [Zarn> you are like Lefty and me, when it comes to typing
[17:48] [Trip> when I type too fast my hands automatically go back and correct mistakes :P
[17:48] [Trip> it's kind of weird
[17:48] [Trip> I've gotten up to 120 WPM before
[17:49] [DX_Zoi> I have done that and then realise==ze that I din't hit the backsoa==pace hey after all
[17:50] [SL3> I too have gotten up to 120WPM, mispelled
[17:50] [Trip>
[17:50] [Trip> does CGN have any Catapults?
[17:51] [miccofl> 3
[17:51] [SL3> classified information Micco needs to repond, I'm not very good at diplomacy
[17:51] [Trip> hehe
[17:51] [Trip> any plans on increasing that?
[17:51] [Trip> Metallurgy is around the corner
[17:51] [miccofl> probably
[17:52] [Trip> so many things to build, so few cities
[17:52] [miccofl> exactly
[17:52] [SL3> and not enough time
[17:52] [DX_Zoi> hear hear
[17:52] [Trip> a navy is probably most important at this point though
[17:53] [SL3> grrr
[17:53] [miccofl>
[17:53] [SL3> that not fair
[17:53] [Trip> ?
[17:53] [SL3> I have been lobbying against Micco
[17:54] [SL3> and now you are helping him
[17:54] [Trip> against a navy?
[17:54] [Trip> well, do you want to die or what?
[17:54] [Trip> you don't really think GWT is planning on smashing its head against your brick wall, do you?
[17:54] [SL3> galleys can not hurt us only the units that can be unloaded
[17:54] [miccofl> we were hoping
[17:54] * ShangMan has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:55] [Trip> yeah, that's the problem
[17:55] [Trip> can you stop 15 Ansar that land near Tampere?
[17:55] [miccofl> 8 galleys? that's a bit much even for them
[17:55] * ShangMan has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[17:55] [miccofl> I figure about 4 on each side
[17:56] [miccofl> and whatever GCA is adding to the mix
[17:56] [DX_Zoi> I don't think things will escalate until caravels
[17:56] [Zarn> I would rahter overestimate an opponent than underestimate an opponent
[17:57] [DX_Zoi> GCA has War Elephants, no resources needed
[17:57] [Trip> if GWT is really planning on doing a large naval invasion they can dedicate their entire long western coastline to building Galleys
[17:57] [Trip> with their FP over there too...
[17:57] [Zarn> Yeah, they may help GWT. It could be one of the reasons why GWT helped them.
[17:57] [Trip> they could easily gather 10 or 15 Galleys
[17:58] [Trip> as I said before
[17:58] [Trip> bongo, the GWT MOW, is no pushover
[17:58] [SL3> but they only have one route without the possiblity to sink and we should be able to attack their galleys first and then move land base units into position
[17:58] [Trip> he's reputed to be very good at what he does and can be quite crafty
[17:59] [miccofl> if you recall we sent all the power north SL
[17:59] [Trip> pretending to launch a major invasion on land in the east with slowmovers might be just the diversion to hit in the west with a number of Galleys
[18:01] [SL3> Well if they do have 3 very big armies and capable of attacking in 3 locations at once than good for them.
[18:01] [SL3> Not much we can do but fight back
[18:01] [Trip> fighting back requires having units to do so with
[18:02] [Trip> either 1) a large reserve force near the north you can respond with
[18:02] [Trip> or 2) a large Galley fleet
[18:02] [SL3> true
[18:02] [Trip> if you lack both, then GWT can punch right through
[18:02] [Trip> sure, you'll see them coming with your picket Galleys, but how do you stop 15 of THEIR Galleys?
[18:03] [Trip> once they land with 3-move Ansar it would be a disaster
[18:03] [Trip> unless you had the force to stop that
[18:03] [Trip> which could be difficult, especially if you have the majority of your army in the east
[18:04] [Zarn> You defniatley need mounted troops to protect your coast as well as galleys
[18:04] [miccofl> back to so much to build so few cities
[18:05] [miccofl> GCA has the turn
[18:05] [Trip> the best way to deter them is a navy
[18:05] [Trip> which is why I say why that should be your priority
[18:05] [Zarn> Even if you only beat back 12 of 15, it is still better than having a full invasion ofrce
[18:05] [miccofl> one of them anyway
[18:07] [Trip> even if you only have 1/2 GWT's Galleys, the threat of them losing that many Galleys PLUS any cargo might be enough to deter them
[18:07] [miccofl> perhaps we should muster up about 4 in each ocean and go hunting
[18:07] [SL3> I'm not totally convinced, after they land we still get first strike. So we strike at their galleys hoping to take a few out and than strike at their units when they land. Than what ever is left over need to attack cities with pikes and hopefully GP units later.
[18:08] [Trip> SL3: right, but how much of a counter-attack force do you have in the west?
[18:08] [Trip> they could land fairly soon
[18:08] [Trip> they've had their GA for about 10 turns and their FP for longer
[18:08] [Trip> they could already have 10 Galleys
[18:08] [miccofl> they could also hit us within 4 turns if that is the case
[18:09] [DX_Zoi> Well, gentlemen, I need to get going
[18:09] [DX_Zoi> miccofl and SL3, it was a pleasure to finally meet you
[18:09] [SL3> you too DX_ZOI
[18:09] [SL3> and thanks for the offers to help
[18:10] [SL3> I understand what you are saying and micco has given me the same arguement but we only have so many cities and units to work with
[18:10] [miccofl> We will discuss the trade offer and I will get back to you
[18:10] [DX_Zoi> sounds good. Just contact Cheetah with your decision.
[18:10] [Trip> SL3: right, but having limited resources favors building 30-shield Galleys over 70-shield Knights
[18:11] [SL3>
[18:11] [SL3> very true but I just dont want to build galleys in my city
[18:11] [DX_Zoi> Bye all
[18:11] * DX_Zoi has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[18:11] [miccofl> to bad, it does them quickly
[18:12] [SL3> That is what I get for taking a terrible location and making it a top city
[18:12] [Zarn> Well if your galeys stopped GWT, you would be a hero...
[18:13] [SL3> and I agree with you or I would have started a poll and sent e-mails out asking for votes
[18:13] [Trip> hope GCA plays their turn quickly...
[18:13] [miccofl> took less than 30 min last time
[18:13] [miccofl> Takes me longer than that to get everyone together
[18:14] [Trip> they don't really have much to do...
[18:14] [Zarn> do you think they are recreating a military in their new home?
[18:14] [Trip> though I REALLY wish mongoose would just force them to make peace :\
[18:14] [Trip> they already HAD a military when they got there
[18:14] [Trip> 15 units probably
[18:15] * static has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[18:16] [Zarn> I know they still had a military. i'm just asking if you think they are going to create their UU
[18:16] [miccofl> depends on what they are up to, can't be much fun for their members
[18:16] * static has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[18:17] [SL3> depends on how productive thier 2 cities are
[18:17] * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Quit: Who gives a damn about why I left? I mean, really?)
[18:18] [miccofl> I'm surprised GWT hasn't given them contact so they can build an embassy
[18:19] [Trip> indeed
[18:19] [Trip> that's surprised me too
[18:20] [Zarn> yeah that is surprising
[18:20] * Trip shrugs
[18:20] [Trip> maybe better things to do with their gold
[18:20] [Zarn> Is there anything else to say? Are we setting up another chat?
[18:21] [Zarn> I guess not :
[18:21] [Trip> hehe
[18:22] [Trip> I don't know
[18:22] [Trip> I don't think we need to now
[18:22] [Trip> if things change or we have reason to then we can easily set another one up
[18:22] [Zarn> true
[18:22] [Zarn> I'm going now.
[18:22] [Zarn> Later
[18:22] [SL3> bye
[18:22] [Trip> Zarn
[18:22] [miccofl> I had hoped we would come out of this with some good tech opportunities
[18:22] * Bob has joined #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[18:22] [Trip> can you send me a log?
[18:23] [Zarn> Well, we may get techs trades in the future...
[18:23] [miccofl> Later Zarn
[18:23] [Trip> currently there aren't many techs around to be traded
[18:23] [SL3> it is a start just getting teams together
[18:23] * Bob has left #demogame_cfc_Embassy
[18:24] [Zarn> Unfortuenetly, I don't have a log. Someone else was recording.
[18:24] [Trip> hmm, okay
[18:24] [Trip> whoever was recording, can you have them send it to me?
[18:24] [Trip> TripGoT@hotmail.com
[18:24] * Zarn has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[18:27] [Trip> I've got to go now
[18:27] [Trip> 'Til lata
[18:27] * Trip has quit IRC (Quit: )
[18:27] [miccofl> Me too, need to get something to eat before the turn comes. Later all
[18:27] [SL3> bye
[18:28] * miccofl has quit IRC (Quit: See y'all later!)
[18:28] * SL3 has quit IRC (Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanst
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:34
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Chat between Trip and I in #apolytonisdg before I entered the CGN channel with Trip and miccofl:
quote:
* Trip is giving miccofl an ass-whipping
Arnelos> goo
Arnelos> *good
Trip> "the mob" struck down moving the Knights 2-2, and struck down teleporting
Trip> currently they favor moving the Knights 2-3
Arnelos> lord god
Arnelos> someone needs to take charge
Trip> that's what I told him
Arnelos> Apolyton is a democracy in all, but when it comes to turn-by-turn military manuevers, those are not democratic decisions....
Trip> 18:25] Trip> pardon my comments, if they may somehow be construed as an international diplomatic insult, but you guys really need to get a MOW and a unified plan
Trip> [18:25] Trip> democracy is no way to fight a way
Trip> [18:25] miccofl> no ****
Trip> [18:25] Trip> you need a coherent plan and someone to lead the ship in one direction
Trip> [18:25] Trip> err
Trip> [18:26] Trip> democracy is no way to fight a war
Trip> [18:26] miccofl> I read what you meant
Trip> [18:26] Trip> if it wouldn't cause too much of a stir
Trip> [18:26] Trip> then I suggest you take nominal control of the military
Trip> [18:26] Trip> if you keep polling over every move to make you're going to end up in another situation like this
Trip> [18:27] miccofl> ah, actually excercise the powers granted me under martial law?
Trip> [18:27] Trip> yes
Trip> [18:27] Trip> immediately
Trip> [18:27] Trip> before your army is destroyed
Trip> [18:27] Trip> someone needs to sort this crap out
Trip> [18:27] Trip> right away
Trip> [18:28] Trip> a few people with toes stepped on is better than no people at all
Trip> [18:31] Trip> and if you guys have another "incident" due to this democratically-controlled military you'll find yourselves unemployed
Trip> [18:32] miccofl> problem is you are not talking to the ones you need to talk to
Trip> [18:33] Trip> hey, it's your team, not mine :P
Trip> [18:33] Trip> I'm not the one who can exercise any kind of martial law stuff to save my country from destruction :P
Trip> [18:33] miccofl> the wall is hard, long live my head...
Arnelos> lol
Trip> [18:34] Trip> well, at least you can be contented with the fact that if your head rolls, they all do
Trip> hmmm
Trip> there's a city north of Webringen
Trip> brb, gotta start laundry
Trip> good lord
Trip> Parthemuende has 3x the culture of all of Apolyton :P
Arnelos> heh
WIA> Yes, but it's the wrong sort of culture
WIA> ENEMY culture
Trip> I want to see that hidden GWT land
Trip> they have at least 3 cities in the fog
* Kloreep|away is now known as Kloreep
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Then when I came into chat with CGN (Trip and I with miccofl):
quote:
* Arnelos concurs with Trip
Trip> haha
miccofl> does anyone know a greeting that would fall somewhere between "Hey Dickhead" and "Felicitations"?
Trip> "Hi Lucky"
Trip> ?
miccofl> a first draft but already getting rave reviews
miccofl> {Insert Greeting}
miccofl>
miccofl> I must apologize; our scribes and sages are unfamiliar with the event you have outlined in your greeting. We have met no civilizations greater than the ones we knew before your greeting. Perhaps you were mistaken. We find your second statement to be an oxymoron.
miccofl>
miccofl> We have met; we are amused by your flair for the obvious. We see your words of peace and are distressed by the lie they represent and the deceit you have demonstrated by your embassy's spies.
miccofl>
miccofl> We have just met, but we have been aware of your existence for no less than a millennia. Your reputation has been shown to be wanting in honor by your enemies, those you have conquered and hard evidence from our intelligence services.
miccofl> Your short introduction followed by your establishment of an embassy with a hyperactive spy ring preceded by your entire army taking a magic carpet ride halfway around the world has demonstrated to us your lack of honor. This lack of honor has established you in our eyes as a pariah nation, one that which we, as an honorable civilization must fight and resist with all that is in our power to do.
miccofl>
miccofl> It is therefore my honored pleasure and duty, as Premier of Netatolia, to inform you that a State of War exists between Netatolia and Catcharia. The level that you wish to elevate the war is that of your choosing. We can assure you that if any units of your nefarious civilization interfere in any way with the operations of Netatolian forces they do so at their own peril and we suggest that your naval forces depart to the north as q
miccofl>
miccofl> In summary, your clever introduction and subsequent self-aggrandizing has done nothing to improve our opinion of you considering your past actions. We see no need to have relations with your civilization, much less ongoing relations. We would rather war with you than speak to you. Let's dance.
Trip> muahahahahaaa
miccofl> I do write a nice war speech if I do say so myself
miccofl> someone asked if I needed to be so blunt (I thought I had toned it down to a reasonable level)
Arnelos> quick question... are you guys looking to declare war on GCA to prevent them from doing investigations of your cities or are you worried it will put you in the same boat as 'poly/CFC (perpetual war and thus WW)?
miccofl> more preventative and point of view than anything
miccofl> if they hadn't teleported we would not be holding now
miccofl> we would not have considered it otherwise
miccofl> but since it is to be used
miccofl> we cannot discount it's use against us
miccofl> and must therefore use it as well
miccofl> or not
Arnelos> so you're going to declare war or not?
miccofl> probably
miccofl> the text wasn't clear enough?
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long pause (actually started during the rear end of the previous chat snipet) in which Trip and discussed the following in #apolytonisdg:
quote:
Arnelos> um... Trip....
Arnelos> does miccofl know that we violated a NAP with GCA?
Arnelos> and thus what Lucky's almost certain response is to be?
Arnelos> Trip?
WIA> Response to what?
Arnelos> hello?
Arnelos> Trip? are you alive?
Arnelos> I sorta need to know... I don't want to f*** up whatever you guys have told miccofl before this
Trip> hi
Trip> I'm back
Trip> I told you I was doing laundry :P
Trip> no, I don't think I've told him
Arnelos> someone had better
Arnelos> the premise of his entire letter to Lucky is that CGN is establishing itself as an "honorable" team which sees GCA as "dishonorable"... seeing as CGN is not fully aware of Apolyton breaking its word with GCA, that's inevitably going to come up if miccofl goes that way with Lucky...
Arnelos> we need to control this, talk to miccofl about it before Lucky does
Trip> feel free
Trip> I'm mainly watching at this point
Trip> need to do some reading
Arnelos> ok
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Continued chat with miccofl:
quote:
Arnelos> I didn't read every letter
Arnelos> I got the idea that you don't like them
Arnelos> btw, something you guys should know about and may be factored into altering your wording...
* miccofl waiting, anticipating...
Arnelos> GCA's major major major beef with Apolyton and CFC (aside from the fact that we wiped them out) is that both of our teams had treaties with GCA at the time our wars with them started. Apolyton attacked at the behest of CDG, with whom we signed an agreement. We can claim that GCA's action to wipe out CDG and then move to wipe out CFC despite our protests justifies our action, but ultimately we DID violate a treaty with GCA
miccofl> and kept a treaty with another
Arnelos> as for CFC, they first signed a cease fire with GCA to keep from being wiped out (after Apolyton attacked and gave CFC a chance to survive)... then attacked GCA after GCA started losing badly to Apolyton
Arnelos> miccofl - yes
Arnelos> the two treaties were on conflict
miccofl> **** happens
Arnelos> that said, that situation means that Lucky has his own opinions on "honor" in the game... from his rather warped perspective, he was only behaving in the same dishonorable fashion as he believes Apolyton/CFC were behaving in ganging up on his team
Arnelos> we have no doubt that this is what drives GCA's vendetta
Arnelos> while we certainly find his actions of outright CHEATING to be unquestionably reprehensible, we can understand (though have little respect for him because of it) how he and his team could resort to it
miccofl> So then I shoud reinsert the part about typing slow since they can't read fast.
Trip> what cities are the GWT and GCA Galleys near right now?
miccofl> Closest city is Meirtopia
Arnelos> I suppose I just find the main thrust of your statements regarding GCA's "honor" as richly ironic, really
Arnelos> GCA's warped perspective dictates that Apolyton and CFC are "dishonorable" and that this is the entire justification for GCA's exploitive and (we believe) outright cheating behavior.
Trip> how far up the coasts are your pickets?
miccofl> We have 2 against the 4 for another 2
miccofl> we could hit GCA but it would leave us open for an attack from both
Trip> right
Trip> woops
Trip> GWT has more population than you guys :P
Trip> but you still have more land
miccofl> they do?
Trip> yes
Trip> maybe not
Trip> if not, then it's very close
miccofl> if they do they just passed us
Trip> I'm not sure how your Workers being added to Agincourt affectged it
Trip> affected
Trip> I loaded the game in Conquests, it tells you who has the most pop and land
miccofl> we were #1 in pop last turn
Trip> it said that GWT was top in pop, you guys still in land
Trip> brb
Arnelos> 4Trip - posting chat here up to THIS point... you can post anything after this
Arnelos> (well, at least what I've been here for - you're responsible for the rest )
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
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Chat with CFC
quote:
[18:27] [Octavian_X] No officials (as I last remember them) appear to be online...
[18:28] [Togas] we'll fill you in and you can fill in the others
[18:28] [Togas] they'll probably want to come chat again with us soon regarding this
[18:29] [Togas] As you probably know, GWT attacked CGN and is marching a stack of doom into CGN territory
[18:29] [Octavian_X] I'll just serve as a messenger then - they might shoot me if I did any more.
[18:29] [Togas] the battleplace is Boston
[18:29] [Octavian_X] So I've heard.
[18:29] [Togas] after some skirmishes on both part, and losses on both sides, CGN decided to do a tactical retreat and gifted boston to us
[18:30] [Togas] they also gifted another city that's stuck on GWT's side of the landmass
[18:30] [Octavian_X] Interesting...
[18:30] [Togas] we have been debating what to do with Boston ... raize it or hold it
[18:30] [Octavian_X] Is it even possible for you guys to hold it?
[18:30] [Togas] impossible. their stack of doom is something like 50 units
[18:31] [Togas] but if we don't disband it, GWT will be forced to attack us or go around us
[18:31] [Togas] and they're definately going to attack us
[18:31] [Octavian_X] My own opinion (not in any way representing that of the Fanatikese Government) is that you disband it.
[18:32] [Octavian_X] It seems to me that it's best to stay out of the conflict between CGN and GWT.
[18:32] [Togas] we debated it for a LONG time ... mostly last night
[18:32] [Octavian_X] heh
[18:33] [Togas] we ultimately came to this conclusion: If gwt attacks us, they get a WW hit. And they'll want peace. But we still don't have peace with GCA.
[18:33] [Togas] we can sort of force the issue ... peace with gwt if gca gives us peace.
[18:33] [Octavian_X] I see... Interesting, if risky, strategy.
[18:34] [Togas] the only thing we'd lose, by them attacking us, is gold
[18:34] [Togas] the city itself is size 1, it'll crumble
[18:34] [Togas] however ... we'd like to GIFT all of our gold to CFC this turn
[18:34] [Togas] you guys would then gift it all back, accepted to us on your turn.
[18:34] [Togas] on GWT's turn, they attack, get 0 gold.
[18:35] * Octavian_X pictures a new library for Kuangbiao Hainan...
[18:35] [Togas] on our turn we get the gold back (diplomacy is preturn) and then go back to our deficit research program
[18:36] [Octavian_X] Personally, I think that keeping the city is too risky a plan altogether. I'll relay this information to our forum.
[18:36] [Togas] thanks. we just need to make sure you guys understand what's going on
[18:36] [Togas] and we do need to give you guys notice. As GWT will be attacking and destroying an Apolyton city, so our military alliance would be in effect.
[18:37] [BigFree] what risks do you see Oct/
[18:37] [Togas] however, we do not think you guys should get involved at all. Someone needs to stay neutral to take spy photos.
[18:37] [Octavian_X] The biggest risk I see is a damaged relation with GWT.
[18:37] [Octavian_X] They are still to be feared, imho.
[18:38] [Togas] they are, indeed, but relations with GWT and poly are chilly right now. Hopefully, this incident will bring them to the table to talk to us.
[18:38] [Octavian_X] It could have the opposite effect as well.
[18:38] [Octavian_X] GWT will not be happy if they percieve that you are helping CGN.
[18:39] [Togas] we're already unhappy with them for helping GCA
[18:40] [Trip] they did sail through our waters :P
[18:40] [Trip] and saved GCA
[18:40] [Trip] I think we have more than enough reason to try and get a few knocks back at them short of a real war
[18:40] [Octavian_X] I don't think GCA is even relevant at this point, at least not relevant enough to justify toying with a power that I think is easily angered.
[18:41] [Trip] yes
[18:41] [Trip] but we must also consider the situation where GWT manages to defeat CGN
[18:42] [Trip] if that were to occur then the chances of a CFC-Apolyton joint victory are greatly diminished
[18:42] * GBM has joined #isdgfamtalks
[18:42] [GBM] hellooo!
[18:43] [Octavian_X] If GWT defeats CGN, you'd be in an even worse spot, I think, if you got in GWT's way earlier.
[18:43] [Trip] I think conflict is inevitable
[18:43] [Octavian_X] May I present the represent of the Son of Heaven, President Gingerbread man...
[18:43] [Trip] unless CGN can contain GWT
[18:43] [Trip] greetings GBM
[18:43] [Togas] greetings
[18:43] [GBM] hi Trip & togas
[18:43] [MasterZen] hello GBM
[18:44] [Octavian_X] Someone care to summarize?
[18:44] [Trip] GWT has a SoD heading south
[18:44] [Trip] they fought for a bit, and now CGN has gifted Boston and El-Amarna to Apolyton
[18:44] [Trip] we're thinking of keeping the cities to slow GWT down or force them to attack us and for them to suffer WW
[18:44] [Trip] thusly, we are gifting our treasury to CFC this turn
[18:44] [Trip] in case they attack the undefended cities
[18:44] [Trip] so we don't lose gold
[18:44] [GBM] wow, how... generous
[18:45] [Trip] temporary
[18:45] [GBM] lol
[18:45] [Trip] that's the next couple techs research costs my friends
[18:45] [Trip] lastly
[18:45] [Trip] we were discussing relations between GWT and our alliance
[18:45] [Trip] and how things might pan out
[18:45] [Trip] Apolyton is of the opinion that if GWT manages to defeat CGN, then we should begin planning on an invasion of GWT
[18:45] [Trip] well, actually
[18:45] [Trip] we believe we should begin planning now
[18:46] [Trip] in case we must do so in the future
[18:46] [Togas] we believe that if GWT wins that war, this game is over.
[18:46] [GBM] yes
[18:46] [Togas] unless, of course, we take some very immediate action
[18:46] [Trip] yes
[18:46] [Trip] our alliance must be fully mobilized to prevent GWT's dominance of this world
[18:46] [Trip] and we need to start preparing now
[18:46] [Trip] especially if it looks as though CGN is going to fall
[18:47] [GBM] at the moment that is still to be determined
[18:47] [Trip] correct
[18:47] [Trip] however, we must still plan for its eventuality
[18:47] [Trip] not too fervently right now, of course
[18:47] [GBM] of course
[18:47] [Trip] however
[18:47] [GBM] well, for that, we need planning
[18:47] [Trip] we should both be looking into preparing a navy and Knights/Riders for upgrade to Cavalry
[18:47] [Trip] yes
[18:47] [Togas] it's always fun to plan
[18:48] [Trip] we feel the best time to strike GWT would be between its defeat of CGN and before it gets the late Medieval techs
[18:48] [Trip] or railroads, at the very latest
[18:48] [GBM] 1st, we need a way to get across the channel. We need either faster ships, or a great lighthouse of sorts
[18:48] [Trip] right
[18:48] [Trip] currently our plan is to acquire those
[18:48] [Trip] after Education we were looking into doing Astronomy
[18:48] [Trip] then either Navigation or up to Magnetism, depending on how the war looks
[18:49] [Trip] if CGN is defeated, then you could take over and do the part of the tech tree up to Military Tradition
[18:49] [Trip] meanwhile we would be building boats and saving cash for upgrade
[18:49] [Trip] we are a fair ways ahead of GWT tech-wise at the moment
[18:49] [Trip] we can capitalize on that by attacking them when they still only have Galleys and Ansar
[18:49] [Trip] when they wouldn't expect an ocean invasion yet
[18:49] [GBM] yes, and they will have no friends at the end of this war (bar GCA, who dont count anymore)
[18:50] [Trip] right
[18:50] [Trip] our tech advantage is the best part of this plan
[18:50] [Trip] if we were even in tech then it would be much more difficult
[18:50] [Trip] however, we should be able to have a good tech lead on them by the time we'd need to invade
[18:50] [GBM] and even if GWT win, we will always have tech advantage
[18:50] [Togas] We don't have to conquer them either, just raize as many cities as possible.
[18:50] [Trip] right
[18:51] [Trip] but we still have to fear an eventual invasion by them
[18:51] [Trip] if they know we're not going to trade techs with them and see us getting much more advanced they will eventually lash out
[18:51] [GBM] yes, that will obviously be the plan after CGN
[18:51] [Trip] which is why we need to take the fight to them first
[18:51] [Togas] amen
[18:51] [Trip] may I inquire as to your current naval and Cav-upgrade-path strength at the moment?
[18:52] [GBM] rather minimal
[18:52] [Trip] getting both up to speed for both of us will be important to make this work
[18:52] [GBM] our recovery is in full force now, things are speeding up greatly
[18:53] [GBM] our economy is getting a boost, as is our production in the near future
[18:53] [Trip] great
[18:53] [Trip] I understand the war with GCA took a lot out of you
[18:53] [Trip] and that you have to devote resources to internal improvement
[18:53] [Trip] the same is the case with us
[18:54] [Trip] however, the blue threat looms on the horizon
[18:54] [Trip] our future military planning and spending should be devoted to that effort
[18:54] [Trip] boats and Knights/Riders
[18:54] [MasterZen] and it reeks of sauerkraut
[18:54] [GBM] yes, but by the time our next president is finished (he starts in about 2 turns) we will be fully capable of building an army
[18:54] [GBM] lol
[18:54] [Trip] excellent
[18:55] [Trip] we don't have exact numbers on what we'd like to see from each of us regarding what we could land with
[18:55] [GBM] I would have to say put everything we have at them
[18:55] [Trip] however, we should try to have 20 or 30 units each and enough boats to carry them
[18:55] [Trip] right
[18:55] [GBM] definitely, 25 each MINIMUM
[18:55] [Trip] right
[18:55] [Trip] we should plan on those numbers and try to exceed them
[18:55] [GBM] exactly
[18:55] [Trip] if we are to do it before they get RRs
[18:56] [Trip] or possibly before they get Nav or MT
[18:56] [Trip] that's where the true advantage lies
[18:56] [Trip] hitting them with 25 units each before they get ocean-going vessels and Cav will be much more valuable than if we went with 35 each and they did have both...
[18:56] [GBM] I think we will make it
[18:56] [Trip] I agree
[18:56] [Togas] plus, we could attack from 2-3 different points
[18:56] [Trip] perhaps you can begin discussion within your team about this issue now
[18:56] [Togas] simultaneously
[18:57] [GBM] two countries, two seperate assaults
[18:57] [Trip] and we can have future chats on this topic depending on how CGN holds up
[18:57] [GBM] or possibly three or four, if we can get 20+ units for each assault
[18:57] [GBM] yes
[18:57] [Togas] absolutely
[18:57] [Trip] ideally, of course, CGN beats GWT back and we don't have to invade
[18:57] * Octavian_X has quit IRC (Ping timeout )
[18:57] [Trip] but it's best to plan for the worst, as they say
[18:58] [GBM] even if GWT does fail invasion, we should still attack them
[18:58] [Trip] building a couple extra Cavalry and a couple fewer Banks will have less effect than if CGN falls and we find ourselves short on boats and Cavalry...
[18:58] [GBM] in order to win the game, we need holdings on the other continent
[18:59] [Trip] it's more up in the air
[18:59] [Trip] but we'll see
[18:59] [Trip] if CGN can limit GWT's power we might be able to win by UN victory
[18:59] [GBM] yeah, the future is still clouded
[18:59] [Trip] GWT won't be able to invade us because they'd still have CGN to deal with
[18:59] [GBM] UN? hopeful, but doubtful
[19:00] [Trip] CGN-CFC-Poly all vote for one of us, GWT and GCA on the other side
[19:00] [Trip] if we can build it then we'd be able to win
[19:00] [GBM] hmmm, I dont think CGN will let someone else win
[19:01] [GBM] but, stranger things have happened in this game
[19:02] [Togas] what would be interesting is if CGN was the #2 option...
[19:03] [Trip] hehe
[19:03] [Trip] long ways off
[19:03] [Trip] but yes
[19:03] [Togas] true
[19:03] [Togas] we'll burn that bridge when we get to it
[19:03] [Trip] take the topic back to your team so that we can begin preliminary discussions
[19:03] [GBM] lol
[19:03] [GBM] sre
[19:03] [Trip] remember, think boats and Riders
[19:03] [GBM] I think we're already discussing it
[19:03] [Trip] great
[19:04] [Trip] this way we won't be caught unawares if CGN is destroyed
[19:04] [GBM] always plan for every possibility
[19:05] [Trip] great
[19:05] [Trip] on another topic, we finish Education in ~5 turns
[19:06] [Trip] we'll fire that your way when we get it
[19:06] [GBM] great
[19:06] [Trip] also, we will send you Invention once GWT acquires it, so we don't reduce the tech cost of that keystone tech for their research
[19:06] [GBM] great idea
[19:07] [Trip] remember to send our treasury back accepted when you play your turn
[19:07] [GBM] of course ;
[19:07] * BigFree is now known as BigFree|Away
[19:08] [Trip] I'm going to play our turn soon
[19:08] [Trip] you should get it in an hour or so
[19:08] [GBM] cool
[19:08] [Trip] you're doing Printing Press in 40 turns, correct?
[19:09] [GBM] I assume
[19:09] [GBM] I havent played the save in a while
[19:09] [Trip] ahh
[19:09] [Trip] okay
[19:09] [GBM] let me check
[19:09] [Trip] in case we need to go ahead with the early GWT invasion, then you'll probably have to take over the lower half of the tech tree
[19:09] [Trip] Chemistry, Metallurgy, Military Tradition
[19:10] [GBM] yes
[19:10] [Trip] at that point we'd also end the joint research, for obvious reasons
[19:10] [GBM] hehe
[19:13] * Trip is now known as Trip[playing-turn] |
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18-12-2003 23:53
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