20-07-2004 03:46									#181
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right, right.
what difficulty we are playing? pop 2 causes drone riots, thats completely new to me.
is there a thread were I can see all the other settings of the game?

	20-07-2004 04:40									#182
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Transcend.

Game rules: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=117456

Game setup:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=117317
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...17_settings.gif

	20-07-2004 04:46									#183
	Increase Your PM Length

Kassi


Perhaps it would be useful for future reference if one of the game mods created a topped thread in the general forum with all the rules and game setup information.

	20-07-2004 05:12									#184
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all this talk about high morale units for confronting yang. Do we plan on going to war with them?

maybe I should read the game setup thread , but I see yang up high on the power graph. I'm assuming they were setup with some bonuses in the game creation so they aren't a roll-over ai civ. They are likely to have some armoued units I would think.

edit: I read the game setup thread. It seems they started with an extra colongy pod and a couple of formers. It's unlikely they have armoued units then.

So what's the plan? Do we knock out the hive?

	20-07-2004 05:38									#185
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quote: Originally posted by ChairmanSlick One thing i would change is your energy allocation it said that you were on 10% psych?? whats the point in that, there is no way you are going to get enough psych to change a drone this early and the inefficiency caused by having the percentages all changed around like you have far out ways the benefits in my opinion.

The 10% psych allocation isn't to do with the drones - it 'cos the research rate is better with a 30/10/60 than with any other combination.

Sure, we would lose a lot to inefficiency if we had 20 or 30 bases and over 100 lab points per turn, but right now, when our lab points are just 6 or 7 a turn, it's not even counted in the formula (which rounds to the higher integer)

G.

	20-07-2004 10:29									#186
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i c, i c...

i didn't realise that it would get us more tech... if so then go for it!

I guess this was discussed earlier and i missed it.

--- All this talk of hive to the south or whatever, is this assumed? or are there any facts indicating that this is in fact the case?

	20-07-2004 10:38									#187
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-- keep in mind that random events which is ON will favour builders who build facilities... =(

	20-07-2004 10:43									#188
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quote: Originally posted by ChairmanSlick --- All this talk of hive to the south or whatever, is this assumed? or are there any facts indicating that this is in fact the case?

The Data Angel team used an exploit accidentally and discovered a Hiverian base at given co-ordinates. All teams were given the info to balance things out. More details here.

	20-07-2004 15:06									#189
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thanks Kauha.

but I didn't see map size, cloud cover, etc. discussed anywhere.

	20-07-2004 17:16									#190
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great... i think i'm just about up to date now

	20-07-2004 23:12									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Andemagne thanks Kauha. but I didn't see map size, cloud cover, etc. discussed anywhere.

We had a poll on that before the game started, it's probably in the ACDG-Archives now. I couldn't find the poll right now, but I could find the results:

Large map
Medium water
Average rainfall
Rolling erosion
Moderate native life

	21-07-2004 05:06									#192
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rolling erosion?

	21-07-2004 05:17									#193
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ie - the average (not mountains everywhere nor flatlands)

	21-07-2004 05:48									#195
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Re: the turn thread question (former, facility or rover in production at SC1 when podpopping), I don't see the need right now for a second Command Center (at 1 ec per turn it's an extravagance)

I'd go for the former, then switch to a rover if the podpop is unsuccessful

Bad luck on the fungus, though. Twice in a row isn't very nice (at least it shows we aren't cheating with reloads!!)

Re: gunfoil vs trannie - I'd go for the foil. We get the morale boost as Sparta which increases our psi battle odds, can explore faster and further, and podpops are likely to be sonar maps, ec's or IoD's (translates to ec's if we kill them).

	21-07-2004 06:01									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Oh yeah, square (58.24) also unrevealed while moving through (56.22).

That's good news - it means that the exploring rover (now will be Rolling Thunder) - after SC2 completes its CP and drops to popsize 1 - will uncover the westernmost crater tile at 48:14 if it does hold to your yellow route (your post and map of 18th)

G.

	21-07-2004 06:26									#197
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I think we should be build _ONLY_ Rover formers. why?, well, they move and begin (terra)forming on the same turn. they cost a little more but so what, they'll pay it back. and that's even better, if we get them from pod.

next, we should, I think, build more scout rovers, as they are needed.

what to build in Gythium Harbour? I say transport foil, that's what I allways do. we can build gun foil next. does that Spartan factional bonus, +2 moral, affect also sea units?

The Great Fungal Wall sounds great!


and better luck next time with pods

	21-07-2004 06:58									#198
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quote: Originally posted by Andemagne I think we should be build _ONLY_ Rover formers. why?, well, they move and begin (terra)forming on the same turn. they cost a little more but so what, they'll pay it back. and that's even better, if we get them from pod.

Great idea - I support that!!

quote: next, we should, I think, build more scout rovers, as they are needed.

I'd go along with that. In other words, until we complete that first row of minerals in either SC1 or SC2, put a rover former in production if popping a pod, otherwise change back to a scout rover. (at least until a network Node can be inserted)

quote: does that Spartan factional bonus, +2 morale, affect also sea units?

yes - we get it for every unit - air, land, sea, probes, even native wildlife units

quote: The Great Fungal Wall sounds great!

I like it too (obviously, as it was a major landmark in The Spartan Chronicles)

G.

	21-07-2004 08:21									#199
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Oooh, a rover former would be awesome! How much are those anyways? Like 5 min rows or something? Compared to 2 min rows for regular formers. I think, if we aren't too pressed for getting formers off the production block immediately (which I don't think we are) then it would be the better long-term investment to build some rover formers. Especially since it's likely that we'll mainly be building roads (and forests) for a while until we get restrictions lifted.

hmmm, it's possible that the fungal wall could be useful. If we ever want to fight a defensive war against Yang, it would be really easy to channel the Hive troops through that narrow patch of non-fungus land into a kill zone.

I'd go for gun foil. Even if we get an AA with a transport, we still forfeit our chance to go exploring because we have to bring the AA back to base. And that might take a while. So, I say its better to pop EC's and gain contact than to have a slim chance of getting an AA.

BTW, did we ever come to a consensus on the spot for the 4th base? I'm good with anything that puts the nutrient bonus in its radius.

	21-07-2004 10:18									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter BTW, did we ever come to a consensus on the spot for the 4th base? I'm good with anything that puts the nutrient bonus in its radius.

It was the yellow option, modified to put it further out on the crater river to get at the nut tile. Thus:

	21-07-2004 16:04									#201
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how many bases we are going to build in the 'Crater? if we place it like that, we can't put there as many as planned. and we planned four(4) IIRC.


EDIT: and, didn't we plan to build base#4 on the Rio Grande delta?

	21-07-2004 17:22									#202
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We can still do 4 (one at each corner). I know it's tight base spacing, but I think it will work, as its likely that this ACDG3 will be decided before we can work all of the squares in a base radius anyways.

We could have base #6 be on the Rio Grande. You're right, there are some excellent spots up there.

	21-07-2004 17:55									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Andemagne how many bases we are going to build in the 'Crater? if we place it like that, we can't put there as many as planned. and we planned four(4) IIRC.

We did (and actually, I think we lose a turn by going that far up river for #4 just to get the nut special in the radius

quote: and, didn't we plan to build base#4 on the Rio Grande delta?

well, that wasn't the yellow option, - IIRC it was the green one that was objected to 'cos it'd take 6 turns to get a pod there. Base #4 could produce a pod that'd go there

And we've also talked about a base at the source - where that northern monolith can be worked.

Another map is in order, maybe!!

	21-07-2004 18:54									#204
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Like this - possible future base sites:

(Future Base #4 doesn't utilize that nut special we see in the crater, but I'll bet even odds that one of those 2 seedpods will yield a nut special (if not both)

Attachment: futurebases.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	21-07-2004 19:28									#205
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quote: Re: gunfoil vs trannie - I'd go for the foil.

quote: I say transport foil

quote: I'd go for gun foil.

Roger that. 2-1 in favour of a gun foil at the moment.

quote: next, we should, I think, build more scout rovers, as they are needed.

quote: I'd go along with that. In other words, until we complete that first row of minerals in either SC1 or SC2, put a rover former in production if popping a pod, otherwise change back to a scout rover. (at least until a network Node can be inserted)

We could indeed use an/some extra scout rover(s) soon. But, unless we're in an emergency and need some extra units right away, how about we try to build our rovers and other military units as much as possible in SC2? After all there, because of the command center, we'd get veteran (+) rovers which could immediately be monolith-upgraded to commando (+). While if we build them in any other base, after monolith upgrading they'd still be only hardened (+).

quote: I think we should be build _ONLY_ Rover formers. why?, well, they move and begin (terra)forming on the same turn. they cost a little more but so what, they'll pay it back. and that's even better, if we get them from pod.

quote: Great idea - I support that!!

quote: Oooh, a rover former would be awesome! How much are those anyways? Like 5 min rows or something? Compared to 2 min rows for regular formers. I think, if we aren't too pressed for getting formers off the production block immediately (which I don't think we are) then it would be the better long-term investment to build some rover formers. Especially since it's likely that we'll mainly be building roads (and forests) for a while until we get restrictions lifted.

Heh, I hate to argue against such a unanimous agreement.
But consider the following:

Switching production to a rover former when we have a chance of getting a materials pod is a great idea.
But I doubt whether they are a good investment when we have to build them completely ourselves.

After all, a rover former costs 5 min rows or something, while a standard infantry former costs only 2 rows. So for every rover former we'd build we could build two standard formers instead.

The advantage of a rover former is as said above that they can move and begin terraforming in the same turn. For example move to a unroaded tile and begin building a road already. The rover former could get the job done one turn earlier than a infantry former who would waste one turn simply moving to the unroaded tile.

However when you compare one rover former against two infantry formers, the turn advantage lies significantly in the camp of the infantry formers. After all they have double former power and can also divide jobs. For example while infantry former 1 is building a forest somewhere, infantry former 2 could already be building a road in the tile next to that. And when infantry former 2 finishes the road, infantry former 1 could simply move on the roaded tile and start terraforming that one too immediately, with the help of infantry former 1 (meaning they'll get it done double as quick as a rover former), and without wasting a turn in between.

So AFAIK both on short-term and long-term two infantry formers will outmatch one rover former.

	22-07-2004 04:58									#207
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I vote for gun foil. They are quick to get off the ground- or water as the case may be.

Which means more sea pod pops for us. I usually build these first, then a transport later.

	22-07-2004 05:22									#208
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I'm with Maniac on the former issue - I'd prefer raw terraforming power over mobility. Our formers need not be that mobile, as terraforming operations will take place relatively close to our own bases. It's a relative waste of production power. A rover former of 5 rows can move to a square and build a road in two turns (IIRC), two infantry formers can move to an adjacent block and build a road in two turns as well but for 4 rows. And once we have a road network up and running, the mobility will be even more useless, unless we plan to take them along with an attack force to build a road for replenishment forces.

Last edited by Kassiopeia on 22-07-2004 at 05:27

	22-07-2004 05:35									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia I'm with Maniac on the former issue - I'd prefer raw terraforming power over mobility. Our formers need not be that mobile, as terraforming operations will take place relatively close to our own bases. It's a relative waste of production power. A rover former of 5 rows can move to a square and build a road in two turns (IIRC), two infantry formers can move to an adjacent block and build a road in two turns as well but for 4 rows. And once we have a road network up and running, the mobility will be even more useless, unless we plan to take them along with an attack force to build a road for replenishment forces.

I third that. rover formers have limited use.

	22-07-2004 07:37									#210
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Okay, so as it stands now, getting a rover former from a pod completion is great, but we aren't going to actively build them, right?

Where's Ogie been lately? He needs to be here to argue for his patented land transport+former strategy. I've read his posts on that, but I'm still pretty skeptical about it.