30-12-2002 14:35									#211
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In the other demo game they use a tile numbering convention/system. I gather 1 thru 8 simply start north of the city (at 12 o'clock) and go clockwise around the city. But how do the next series work? I'm sure there was a thread somewhere which explained it, but I can't find it. Can someone help?

This may be of assistance when we are trying to discuss moves.

	30-12-2002 14:47									#212
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Man - do you see what time it is!!!!

I love holidays - I can play Civ3 into the wee hours of the night. I have a great game going with the Carthaginians. I took out the Romans early for a bit of historical justice.

	30-12-2002 22:19									#213
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Further to the discussion on city placement, I have taken Diss' picture and added where 3a is - my choice for city placement. And sent it via e-mail to each of you. The stars also show the three grassland tiles which would be available immediately to Miller Town, as opposed to starting at site 1. I also tried to estimate the number of moves to get there - its either one or two. Eli- or Diss - do one of you have a game save that you can pull the grid up on, take a screen shot of the top part of the top part of the map (ie the lake and The Voice) and send it around. It may help the discussion. I tried to draw the grid on this version, but it was a mess. Thanks.

(and Eli - you gotta be impressed that I managed that. I am. )

	30-12-2002 22:28									#214
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And just to clarify the grasslands vs plains discussion - I appreciate that with improvements we can make them similar over time - my only point is that in the beginning - before we have extra workers to do these improvements, the three grassland squares, without improvements, produce 2 food each.

	30-12-2002 23:15									#215
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A gridded screenshot was mailed to everyone.

	30-12-2002 23:21									#216
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Thank-you! Thank-you!

	30-12-2002 23:36									#217
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Eli - sent you a PM as well - no attachment to the e-mail.

	31-12-2002 00:09									#218
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Oops. Mail with attachment sent.

	31-12-2002 00:16									#219
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Great - thanks - the grid really helps. So - I still say 3A, the position two above the worker - the plains square next to the lake. The settler can get ther in one turn, and the city will have all that nice real estate to the west to work with.

Other views, choices, or arguments?

	31-12-2002 00:20									#220
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And now for some light humour - or I'm starting to lose it. I'm sitting there looking at the gridded screenshot - and I can hear the wolf cry from the game. Yes the wolf cry. And its not from outside.

So, it takes me a few seconds to realize - hey this a screenshot what gives (how did Eli do that) - and then realize the second machine behind me has the 1.29 up with the other demo game world on it, music off, sound effects still on. ...whew.

	31-12-2002 00:24									#221
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But better yet - this has now gone a bit too far. I went to the can a bit back - thinking about where the third city goes - I finish up - reach for the air freshener so my wife doesn't get mad at me - still thinking "the chokepoint, or further south" and then proceed to spray shaving cream all over the bath room. Well, the cans ARE roughly the same size.

Gotta get a life...

	31-12-2002 13:11									#223
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lol

Too much civ3 can ruin your brain

	31-12-2002 22:48									#224
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We are still looking for discussion on where the city goes - I humbly suggest we want agreement on it before Diss or Eli have to play that turn. We want to keep the team's stellar turnaround record intact.

For some further input on city placement - the 'Appropriate City Placement' thread from the civ3-Strategy forum is useful. It supports the idea of smaller and closer cities, yet acknowledges the need to grab land.

	31-12-2002 22:52									#225
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Does anybody else think we might be on this landmass by ourselves?

In my current game at home here, from what I can see so far, all the civs including me are on one landmass. But the Arabs started on a much smaller continent - close by - and at least from what I can see, all by themselves.

Guess time and Willy will tell.

	31-12-2002 23:37									#226
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I still say the city should be placed at the chokepoint first - this will secure our northend on the landmass from enemy ground expansion...and it's a perfect place in order to move ships from one side of the landmass to the other.

	01-01-2003 00:53									#227
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There are no other civs close enough to expand to our land. No one even built a second city yet.

	01-01-2003 02:12									#228
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I'm with Eli on this one. Get a second city producing as fast as possible using the good stuff up north. Leave a warrior on the chokepont to keep the riff raff out, and consider it for a third or fourth site.

	01-01-2003 03:13									#229
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OK I'm still playing the turn now.

We Have Made Contact!!!

So I was thinking our third city we should put in the chokepoint.

	01-01-2003 03:20									#230
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Hi Diss - sent you a PM as well.

?? Who did we meet?

And yes - third city on the chokepoint. And the third warrior sits there until the settler arrives.

We will easily have a road down to there by then.

	01-01-2003 03:23									#231
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Gathering Storm

I have the warrior sitting on the chokepoint for now. Gathering Storm may not like it. I have not initiated diplomacy. Well I have but cancelled. It seems we can offer Bronze Working, so I guess they don't have it.

I tried to rename our second warrior to Thadeus, but his turn was finished and I had no idea how to do it.

Our settler comes out next turn.

If you wish to initiate e-mail with gathering storm we can better arrange our diplomacy in game.

	01-01-2003 03:31									#232
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Will do.

I've not played an e-mail game before, so I'm not sure what you are seeing as the screen. According to the manual, we will need to put something on the table to start discussion,

Gathering Strom is Egypt - damn.

Could you please send the game save to me. I will play by the rules - promise - I just want to see what the diplomacy screens look like. Thanks,

	01-01-2003 03:34									#233
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK, just load as a regular single player game. and put in the password.

Egypt shouldn't be a problem. Are those chariots attack 2? Same as horseman I believe. You just get them a little eariler. Their uu isn't that fearsome. They can be early though. Be luckily we already have bronze working.

	01-01-2003 03:35									#234
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Over in the FA thread I will discuss trading options.

Egypt - damn. I was pulling for RolePlay/Spain.

	01-01-2003 03:36									#235
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Diss - muchos gracias!

	01-01-2003 03:38									#236
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we can offer gold- we have 32, and bronze working. That is it. It doesn't show the other team's assets.

	01-01-2003 03:41									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident OK, just load as a regular single player game. and put in the password. Egypt shouldn't be a problem. Are those chariots attack 2? Same as horseman I believe. You just get them a little eariler. Their uu isn't that fearsome. They can be early though. Be luckily we already have bronze working.

I agree - but that is not what worries me. The combo of industrious and religious builds a strong civilization. It is one of the favored civs, and for good reason. It is the civ that the single team demo game chose to play with as well.

So - yes - I agree wholeheartedly - bronze and iron then lets see who's boss.

	01-01-2003 03:53									#238
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Yup - I see what you mean - the screen is pretty straightforward - I'll start the discussion now in the FA thread - but my first re-action is that they will have nothing to trade with us - they start with Masonnry and C.Burial. We already have both of those. So - unless they picked up something from another civ - which is quite possible - this may be a simple shaking of hands.

	01-01-2003 04:00									#239
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just checked. War chariots cost 20 compared to horseman's 30. So they are a very cheap build. A good rush unit. We'll have to watch that.

We already have masonry?

I'm so used to religous/military civs. I still have to get used to the persians.

	01-01-2003 04:07									#240
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Know what you mean.

Incidentally - two other civs beside us started with Bronze Working - Lux Invicta (Ottomans) and Glory of War (China).