17-04-2003 01:45									#121
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I say we nuke Quebec City to show our contempt for all things French!

I think he likes me!

	17-04-2003 01:48									#122
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Yep, I hope I'm still on-line when he gets home. It's not looking probable though.

	17-04-2003 01:54									#123
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yep, I hope I'm still on-line when he gets home. It's not looking probable though.

Too bad. I get the feeling that there will be some sig material coming out of this one...

	17-04-2003 01:59									#124
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quote: Originally posted by rah Well i have to give you credit for the 40/60 admission on personal contacts. You do have some dignity. It would have been easy to lie and discredit my arguement that way. But that leads to two additional questions. 1. What is your opinion of the ignorance level of people that you've met from your own country and other countries. Is it higher or lower? 2. If through personally experience you've stated 40/60 why would you believe a survey over what you've experienced? I can also share many experiences of seeing STUPID american, but to me, they are the exception and not the norm based on personal experience. On not knowing where "france" is and the like. At my daughters HS, geography is required. I would bet there is less than a handfull of students that are as ignorant as the polls suggest. So I take those survey results with a grain of salt. RAH

1- OMG we have ignorant people in Canada...dont even get me started on that. It's just that it seems that ignorant people in the U.S. have a big impact on how the planet see americans. I find that sadning.

2- I beleive a survey WITH what I experience, I make a whole.


Anyother questions Rah?

Oh and dv8ed, I'm sorry, it's just that I have so many arrows throw at me that I dont know which is a joke from which is not...

Spec.

	17-04-2003 01:59									#125
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I always thought boycotting to be childish, stupid, and misinformed. Boycotting products because of an assumed association with a country does hurt that country but also hurts American businesses that deal with that country. Whether you like it or not France is an ally.

I also find anti-Americanism to be childish, stupid, and misinformed (for example see Spec). There's nothing worse than traveling through Europe and listening to every moron tell me how incompetent I am because I'm American. Usually with silly stories like the one Spec just used as an example. There are stupid people everywhere and they all seem to be dispersed evenly throughout the world.

And I can't stand camel's they always make me sick. Even the smell is nasty. I love my Marlboro's.

	17-04-2003 02:03									#126
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while we're boycotting french products, i suggest we drape the statue of liberty as being morally degenerate.

after all, it's french.

	17-04-2003 02:04									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed while we're boycotting french products, i suggest we drape the statue of liberty as being morally degenerate.

Nuking Quebec would be a better use of our time. The Albertans would thank us.

	17-04-2003 02:05									#128
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hell, we could call it modern art.

	17-04-2003 02:06									#129
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Nuking Quebec would be a better use of our time. The Albertans would thank us.

Nuke Alberta and the rest of Canada would thank you.

	17-04-2003 02:10									#130
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Quebec has some nice architecture and Alberta has part of the rockies. I say nuke Saskatoon.

	17-04-2003 02:11									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Spec 1- OMG we have ignorant people in Canada...dont even get me started on that. It's just that it seems that ignorant people in the U.S. have a big impact on how the planet see americans. I find that sadning. 2- I beleive a survey WITH what I experience, I make a whole. Anyother questions Rah?

Answer to number 2, I'll buy. It tells me that you don't think quite as many americans are as ignorant as your earlier posts suggest and your answer to #1 is really the focus of your issue.
Your answer to #1 says that you imply that yes there are ignorant poeple wherever you go. (I agree with that) but then you seem to infer that since the US is the current top dog, that it's people should be held to a higher standard.
(yes a stretch but if you read it, a case could be made for this, because otherwise the ignorant people in any country would have a big impact on how the planet views their country. then what makes the US different.)

So the real issue is your problem with the US being the top dog, since every other country's ignorant people reflect poorly on their country.

Now I think we've gotten to the bottom of it

RAH

	17-04-2003 02:14									#132
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I'll check in later from home

RAH

	17-04-2003 02:15									#133
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quote: Originally posted by ThePantaloonDog There's nothing worse than traveling through Europe and listening to every moron tell me how incompetent I am because I'm American. Usually with silly stories like the one Spec just used as an example. There are stupid people everywhere and they all seem to be dispersed evenly throughout the world.

Oh man that made me think: we were a bunch of students watching TV and there was an american with us. Though I liked the guy, had nothing personal... the TV had on some american braindead violence action movie, so I say to him: "so are you proud of your culture?"

he almost got a fit, he didn't know what to say, he spelled something like "oh come on..."

just a little joke

that said, we had lots of fun with some students from the US who studied in europe and they were great guys

	17-04-2003 02:18									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Quebec has some nice architecture

That's true. Use a neutron bomb.

	17-04-2003 02:20									#135
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the only thing good to come out of canada has been canadian bacon.



we should invade and procure some.

	17-04-2003 02:21									#136
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Ya know, since the States have a large number of wealthy people, but a similar percentage of ignorant folk, it probably happens that a higher percentage of our bumfroks travel and demonstrate their ignorance to other countries, therefore, global opinion is that we are a country of gnat-brains. Of course, as a French civil servant, I would never make such an uninformed judgement.

	17-04-2003 02:38									#137
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 the TV had on some american braindead violence action movie, so I say to him: "so are you proud of your culture?"

So are you saying that Greek movies and TV soaps are not braindead? (Not that I have seen any, but there was a Greek-Swedish journalist who wrote a column about the subject a while back)

	17-04-2003 02:41									#138
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Most Greek movies are such "intelectual" garbage that it would be an unprecedented box office buster if the director's mother and his girlfirend saw them

(that's what you get when you state-fund movie projects )

FREE MARKETS! Do it without helping walking sticks. If you can...

	17-04-2003 03:10									#139
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Oooh, this means cheaper wine and a less crowded Paris. A lazy summer spent sipping wine while overlooking the Seine seems to be in order.

Or guzzling cheap swill while in the bathtub. Whatever's easier.

	17-04-2003 03:23									#140
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Sorry for my long absence from the forum, but I just come back from a French restaurant where I got drunk with French wine.

I think this boycott, like everything antifrench in the US, is completely childish, because it is badly targetted. Remember Calc2's post : the business which suffered the most was a "French" restaurant of NY which wasn't even possessed by a French-American. I have seen today reports about the boycott on the news, yet all businessmenn have fear without having a definite fall in their activity (except a few ones).

It is possible to have a mature attitude opposed to France, the same way it is possible to have a mature antiamerican stance. It needs to target French products that'll actually make the governments think, rather than being blinded by rage. It means to make a difference between the French people and its government. It means to stop hating blindly to stand a firm yet grown-up opposition.

The Americans are learning to be antifrench, and are about as apt at it as 5 year old childs

	17-04-2003 03:27									#141
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By the way, if it can make you Yanks feel any better, I have seen today in the news the top destinations that are scorned by French tourists (the touristic season opens). the first one is not some ME city. The first one is not Hong Kong and it SARS. The first one is boston, with 73% fewer attendance.

I can understand the tourists that scorn America. I myself wouldn't go to America this year if I had a chance, thanks to the climate of mild hate that I have seen on the reports and that I have seen on the forums.

	17-04-2003 03:31									#142
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However, I do hope there will be at least one positive outcome for this :
Too long have the pretentious, overpriced wines from Bordeaux owned the exportation, with bad chapagne that was presented as a luxury abroad. These wines exploited their reputation, and have an extremely bad Quality/price relation. I hope their loss of popularity will either give them incentive to be of higher quality, or will give them the incentive of being cheaper.

	17-04-2003 03:31									#143
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One thing that puzzles me about France is that the citizens would never raise the Tricolor on a pole in their garden or hang it from the wall outside their house. Swedes do that a lot, even if we are considered "less nationalistic" than the French. Only public buildings in France use the Tricolor.

	17-04-2003 03:32									#144
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quote: By the way, if it can make you Yanks feel any better, I have seen today in the news the top destinations that are scorned by French tourists (the touristic season opens). the first one is not some ME city. The first one is not Hong Kong and it SARS. The first one is boston, with 73% fewer attendance.

So you're saying that there will be fewer Frenchmen infesting American tourist attractions this year? The news just keeps getting better and better...

	17-04-2003 03:34									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Spec

Actually the funniest part of your diatribe is that you seem to think that none of us have been to Canada. It may shock you to find that some of us have actually lived there. So with that in mind.

"Maybe, but we have none" (metal detectors in school)

There may not be metal detectors in Canadian schools, I dont know, I dont care enough to find out for sure. That doesnt mean that there arent schools in every big city in Canada that should have them. I know there are uniformed security in some Canadian high-schools.

'Maybe so, but try doing that in a big city, here you can walk in any alley in Montreal without fear. '

Pull the other one. There are lots of places in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal that I would not walk into without good reason. I can show you good spots to be mugged in within shouting distance of the parliment builidings.

IMO americans are fatter than canadians. The fat police (aka we-know-better-than-you-and-will-tell-you-how-to-live-socialists) are not as active here.

Posted by Imran

quote: It ain't hard to find that. In fact, 24 hour bars aren't that difficult to find either.

'That, I didn't know.'

Well thats a surprise! Guess you dont know as much about the USA as you think you do? Eh!

Viva la partie BC

	17-04-2003 03:38									#146
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I think it's a stretch to say boycotting=hate.
Back in Chicago's history, Jessie Jackson was upset with Budwieser because of their hiring practices. He organized a boycott. Obviously he didn't hate the company because when his son was awarded an exclusive distributorship for a large chunk of Chicago, he imediately dropped the boycott and spoke very highly of them.

RAH
His son has since become quite a wealthy man.

	17-04-2003 03:38									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre One thing that puzzles me about France is that the citizens would never raise the Tricolor on a pole in their garden or hang it from the wall outside their house. Swedes do that a lot, even if we are considered "less nationalistic" than the French. Only public buildings in France use the Tricolor.

This is one of the results of the mad nationalism that partially led to WW1 (a very important war trauma fr the French). Mindless flagwaving is very often considered to be at beast chauvinism, at worst dangerous nationalism. French flags get waved by individuals in very rare occurences, such as the victory in 1998 Football world cup.

Indeed, French people are very much aware of the wrongdoings of their country in the past : the government has promoted an official guilt (taught at school too) over the collaboration with nazi Gemrany, and there is an official guilt developing over the torture used during the Algeria war. It is difficult to wave a flag when you know you live in such a flawed country. Besides, the Republican school doesn't laudate the pre-Revolution kings, while monarchy was 80% of our history. So you bet it isn't easy to wave the flag.

However, it is quite common in France to "teach lessons" to other countries, and to explain them how flawed they are.

Someone here said it best :
"An American will argue his country is better
A French will argue your country is worse"

	17-04-2003 03:39									#148
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I heard today that travel to France is way down as well.

Sorry, I have no 'link '

	17-04-2003 03:45									#149
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quote: Originally posted by rah I think it's a stretch to say boycotting=hate. Back in Chicago's history, Jessie Jackson was upset with Budwieser because of their hiring practices. He organized a boycott. Obviously he didn't hate the company because when his son was awarded an exclusive distributorship for a large chunk of Chicago, he imediately dropped the boycott and spoke very highly of them. RAH His son has since become quite a wealthy man.

I must admit something. I am probably among the French people that get are the most exposed to Americans. I like almost all of you Yanks here, and the dislike I can have for the few others comes from purely personal reasons, NOT their nationality.
But I can't take the surrender jokes anymore. I can't take the consistent bashing my country suffers anymore. Call me paranoid if you want, but I think I'd get called "cheese-eating surrender monkey" at every corner of the street if I decide to go anywhere else in the US than NY. I grew to think I'd hear "go back to your country" once a day, because of my acute French accent.
It may be a misconception, and it certainly is. But it is a misconception i grew to have HERE, in this very forum, with the very people that post here. No particular names, such an impression comes from the collective posting, even though I acknowledge some people try their best to avoid the stupidity of French-bashing.

	17-04-2003 03:55									#150
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Previous message paid for by the cheese bloc.