15-11-2004 17:14									#301
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Cort Haus wasn't sure if his message reached us, so he sent it to me as well.


Here's what I replied:

quote: Thanks for the info. Octavian did post the news in our private forum. Good move by the Monkeys, separating our forces. It seems that we either allow it to happen or allow them a "free" attack before one of our stacks reaches another Monkey city. Moving both our stacks toward the same city might allow us to force the bulk of their defences to be used up. Perhaps that's what we should do? If we separate, we risk serious losses without much gain.

I'll be away until wednesday, so I won't be able to channel further communication until then.

	16-11-2004 07:37									#302
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Another message.

quote: Hi Octavian X, How about we both move west this turn? Cod to Mandrill6 and Python to Mandril9? This keeps our stacks together. Monkey will have several units in Orang which cannot reach Mandril next turn, and our horses will keep some units in Gorilla too. Regards, -Cort

	16-11-2004 07:46									#303
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To reply:

quote: Cort Haus, Sounds like a good plan, given that Mandril is essentially the corner of Monkeyland. I'm not entirely sure, though, that Monkey would keep that many units in Gorilla, given that mercenaries have a definite advantage over horses, and we would definetly have to move on after one or two turns if we hadn't taken the city by then, since Monkey would've been able to call up more troops to the area. Keep in touch, Octavian X

	16-11-2004 09:13									#304
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I definitely think the Mandrill 6-9 plan sounds best, as long as we keep SP defended stoutly. It would seem suicidal to send their stack north rather than use it to defend, or attack our stacks, but they may be desperate enough to try it, and try to force us to fall back to hold it.

	18-11-2004 09:35									#305
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quote: OK, we moved west as agreed. It's possible that Monkey will risk hitting the CoD stack in the open where they can't heal, but they'd need some 50 attackers to completely eliminate it and take the cats. If they did attack they could escape on their roads but the western cities would be undefended. quote: Cort Haus, Sounds like a good plan, given that Mandril is essentially the corner of Monkeyland. I'm not entirely sure, though, that Monkey would keep that many units in Gorilla, given that mercenaries have a definite advantage over horses, and we would definetly have to move on after one or two turns if we hadn't taken the city by then, since Monkey would've been able to call up more troops to the area. Keep in touch, Octavian X

	24-11-2004 19:03									#306
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First there's this:

quote: Same again from the Monkeys. My first thoughts are head back east. CoD move 6 to Orang 87 and Python 3 to Gorilla89. Then CoD to Orang7 and Python to Gorilla9. Only first thoughts though. I'll get back to you guys again once our forum has discussed it. -Cort

And the second one:

quote: Hi Pythons, Here's the latest thinking - and this is still before all opinions are in: Due South is an attractive move, continuing the pattern of threatening one city with two stacks which has worked twice. There's just the rat-run to the north if they've a decent wad in Orang that worries me. They could really embarrass us. They won't hit us in the open, as they can't scamper back and heal in time, and they won't hit us from a city IF the other stack can hit the city next turn. I suspect they want to hit us when they are in a city and the other stack can't retaliate immediately, allowing them to heal. If so, the move I suggested first (CoD to Orang7 and Python to Gorilla9) could be dangerous as one stack could be hit with everything from a city and they can heal before the other stack reaches. In which case the safest move is a 3-stager : 1. CoD move 6 to Orang 87 (where we can be joined by 4 more units including a Musket) and Python 3 to Gorilla89 2. Both move east - CoD to Orang89 and Python to Orang87. 3. Both move south - CoD to Orang9 and Python to Orang7.

To the second message I replied, that my first thought would be to go south with both stacks. Keep forcing them to make the choice: defend and die or abandon the city.

	24-11-2004 21:22									#307
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Message to Cort House, after he replied to my idea of heading both stacks south.

quote: quote: [quote] Cort Haus wrote on 24-11-2004 15:58: Directly south is attractive, but Monkey could march most of their army north - up the road out of Gorilla and three tiles to the northwest of our stacks. We'd be forced to chase after them - or they would take Siege Perilous and more. We'd need a defence plan in case they did that. I see your point. Basically heading south would mean the risk of losing Siege Perilous, even if only for a while. Personally, I would go ahead and risk it, but I don't know about others in team Monty. Another idea would be to head for Orangutan, thus closing the way for a counter-attack that could outrun us. One team would head for Orangutan 87, while the other would go to Orangutan 88.

I'd add that we have defenders in Siege Perilous, but I don't think CoD need know how many, so I didn't bring it up.

	24-11-2004 23:45									#308
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And the response from Cort Haus.

quote: Possible Monkey March Siege Perious would only be the start of the losses. They could have concentrated their units in Orangutan last turn, thus being able to send a very large stack - the kind of stack that they reckon could wreck one of our stacks - which would have free reign in southern Izzardia. We'd have to build new forces in the north to deal with it while our primary armies stomped Monkey's empire. They go Barbarian on Monkey Island but their stack could do a lot of damage before it was stopped. That's what I and Krill think (so far). Arrian agrees with you in fact at the moment and wants to keep the momentum going. Gorilla is a size 5 city and a bigger prize than the tiddlers and temps that Monkey have disbanded so far. It would also spell the quick end for their two western cities, I expect. If we could mount some kind of defence on the hills to delay a monkey march north while one of our stacks followed, the other can do the business in Monkeyland. With reinforcements, the northern stack might be able to keep monkey from too much damage. I dunno though ... To reinterate my suggestion for Orangutan - it's slow but gets us into position safely, avoiding the danger of one of us being next to a city but not the other. 1. CoD move 6 to Orang 87 (where we can be joined by 4 more units including a Musket) and Python 3 to Gorilla89 2. Both move east - CoD to Orang89 and Python to Orang87. 3. Both move south - CoD to Orang9 and Python to Orang7. Discussion continues ...

I told him that we would follow the first of his three suggestions. While I would like to take the risky way south, I don't feel like making such an important decision alone (no team member responded to these messages so far ).

	25-11-2004 23:47									#309
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quote: We went west. http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php..._cod300ad_b.jpg Here's a screenie after our move. Note the pillaging south of Macaque. Maybe they're going to Palace Jump to the size 5 hill town (Chimpanzee just out of the picture in the SW). We're planning on getting approx another 10 Muskets, 10 Cats and 10LB together over the next 10 turns or so. Either as a rearguard so we can keep momentum going in future, and/or needed power for the final showdown in a Barbarian Fortress, if that's what it comes to. If you guys can bring something similar we'll have some 200 units. That should get the job done. -Cort

Should we tell them that we are switching some cities to peaceful production, or should we not? Should we tell him that we plan on leaving units for better homeland defense? He seems to believe that fielding additional 50 units away from home is something we can manage. Either CoD trust us completely, or their economy is that much stronger than ours.

	02-12-2004 21:34									#310
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Should we try to initiate some trades now (310 AD is when I ask)?

Currently we can sell Invention or Gunpowder to most guys on the other continent (Tabemono has it all, as we know), and Monotheism to CoD.

	03-12-2004 01:16									#311
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Perhaps we should ask them what they think we'll need, minimum. Relate that due to our economy and present military costs, we cannot sustain much more.

Economy is a factor of land amount and quality, both of which they surpass us in, so it is no surprise that they can manage more.

It shouldn't hurt to point out that we "changed management" recently, and realized some inefficiences that we are now correcting, with a slight short-term detriment to unit production.

Don't forget to spice this all with some Python humour.

e.g. Our economy is stretched due to production costs on The Holy Grail - you see, every take of the wedding massacre requires a complete casting and wardrobe re-do, as we kill everyone and slash and get blood all over the outfits.

	03-12-2004 01:17									#312
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quote: Originally posted by dejon It shouldn't hurt to point out that we "changed management" recently, and realized some inefficiences that we are now correcting, with a slight short-term detriment to unit production.

This is more "spin" than truth, of course.

	03-12-2004 01:22									#313
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Ok, so telling CoD about the no-reinforcements thing can be done, probably without too much harm.

I'll add to that, that we are beginning to worry about an invasion by sea, with Astronomy visible on the research horizon. So it's going to take many turns still. So what?

Now, what about the whole Monotheism, Invention, Gunpowder, and possibly Silks, situation? [EDIT: we have to assume that at least CoD know we just researched it, or are very close.]

	03-12-2004 01:31									#314
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Now, what about the whole Monotheism, Invention, Gunpowder, and possibly Silks, situation? [EDIT: we have to assume that at least CoD know we just researched it, or are very close.]

Octavian X's input will be invaluable here. While hunting for the last mention of Silks in this thread I saw one or more of those techs mentioned. We possibly have an 'understanding' that neither of us are aware of.

	03-12-2004 01:35									#315
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Well, there might be some trading going around behind ur backs. Might be that CoD have, or will have, a deal with someone to get Monotheism. If not, they might give us some gold for it - gold that just might help us (finally) pay Tabemono. There's still the option that they might want some payment for the Silks they've been sending our way.

Notice the heavy use of the word "might" in previous sentences.

	03-12-2004 01:42									#316
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I guess I still need a sense of how tight an alliance this is.

If we're tight, then we let them know about our outstanding debts, where we're at, and come up with a joint plan to play the remaining civs off one another to our mutual benefit without revealing precisely how cooperative our alliance is.

If not, then we need to read every detail of this thread and pick Oct's mind of how to keep them happy while watching out for our own interests and safeguarding against backstab.

	03-12-2004 01:56									#317
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We've been extremely tight, tech-wise and militarily, with CoD pretty much from the beginning. I don't remember any of the outstanding deals in detail, but I believe Monotheism is part of our payment for Invention. A simple message to Arrian or Cort Haus inquiring about our outstanding trades should tell us either an accurate accounting (which I think will be the case), or, combined with our own study of this thread, alert us to the possibility that they are being less than forthright (which I highly doubt).

	03-12-2004 01:58									#318
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Only thing is, I got up too early to day to do the details and not get a real bad headache. Tomorrow morning. I think the alliance is tight, that's all I can say for now. Post what you think and let's wait for Octavian to post some more.

We can do a long turn, we still won't get longer than the Monkeys did lately.

For now, I'd only like to expand your idea on the Holy Grail, Dejon. Let's rename a Worker, put him into our capital (see, I'm forgetting the name, I'm too tired), and go on a fake sale tour. Might spark some funny comments from other teams, don't you think?

Last edited by Modo44 on 03-12-2004 at 02:03

	03-12-2004 02:02									#319
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MAST pulled a similar prank on us earlier, renaming one of their cities "Military Tradition" right at the beginning of the Middle Ages and sending it to us, unaccepted.

	03-12-2004 02:10									#320
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That's a great idea!

Start a silent auction for the film rights, say?

	03-12-2004 06:57									#321
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That was a lot of fun

I'd contact CoD both about the silks and techs. They'll want Mono for sure (and we may owe them something for it - I'd have to go through the messages again to be sure.

We'll also have to work out the research plan. It may be advantageous for us to fund their scientific efforts rather than doing our own 40-turn thing. We could start the 40-turn process on Monarchy, just in case war weariness intervenes. In the meantime, we'd help CoD research either Theology or Chemistry...

	03-12-2004 12:32									#322
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Message sent to Cort Haus. I hope you don't mind being called "tired", Octavian?

quote: Hello Cake or Death We are pleased to announce that our Great Mage Merlin, working in his Lonely Tower is done researching the wonders of Monotheism. Whaddaya know, apparently there is only The One God. We have gathered and we gather that we should gather send this knowledge to you. Not sure why, but perhaps you know better, if we were supposed to pay you or something? Our historians are... well... tired after last night. So they weren't really helpfull in that matter. As the new One God (whatever) came by, so came his Knights and the Quest for the Holy Grail. We will keep you informed. Also, we have... hmm... new ministers, yes. They have noted that some grave errors were made concerning our domestic policy. This means that we must slow down our War Office Building a bit, in order to keep it from crumbling. Ahh, but we will be back with a vengaence (or so we hope). To be honest, we are close to the limit we can sustain (129gpt for units is a lot to us), due to the smaller land mass, and due to some mismanagement earlier. We are simply not able to field a larger army at the moment. We are also beginning to worry about defending our home from a possible future invasion by sea. This means very few reinforcements going south for a while. Lucky Monkeys. Since Merlin is really exhausted after his recent breakthrough, he might go after someting easy, like Monarchy. It seems we can't do any decent research at the moment. So perhaps we could help you keep the speed instead, by sending some coins your way? If you have other suggestions, then let us know. Oh, and some sad news. Our citizens seem to be addicted to wearing Silks. We tried our best, but we couldn't persuade them to use cotton instead. So when your exquisite Silk fabrics stopped coming in, they started rioting. Can you believe that? (Yes, this is a kind request to renew the deal. ) Last but not least, our stack will go 3 now, to keep the Monkeys worried about their cities. Also, the defenders of Siege Perilous will join in, probably on the next turn or in 2 turns. We wouldn't want them Monkeys to feel safe, would we? -- Congratulations on causing Monkey some casualties. Monty Python(s)

	03-12-2004 15:14									#323
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And my reply to the reply of Cort Haus. Apparently CoD doesn't know what to do with Monotheism either.

quote: Hello Cake or Death quote: Cort Haus wrote on 03-12-2004 10:45: Well, unfortunately the buggy PTW has struck again, as we resent silks accepted last turn. We'll send it again this turn and hope it arrives. Apparently it didn't arrive. Oh well, better luck next turn. quote: Cort Haus wrote on 03-12-2004 10:45: Congrats on Monotheism. Your scientists have clearly been very hard at work counting ther number of gods. Thank you very much on behalf of Merlin. I'll forward your kind words to the Great Mage. Not to repeat myself, but we are supposed to send you Monotheism, right? Or did your historians... erm... move the files as well? Our poeple are still digging in that pile they call index. quote: Cort Haus wrote on 03-12-2004 10:45: I still keep getting no answers from Tabemono about future research. We were considering investing our next several turns into more musket upgrades in case Monkey have Longbows soon but I don't think this plan has been ratified yet. True, we too have some Musket upgrades to finish. So I guess Merlin will do the Monarchy thing. Please consider if/when/how much gold would be necessary to start some serious researching. -- Quoting Solomwi: Cake for us, Death for Monkey. Monty Python's Modo

I'll be playing the save today. I think we should send them Monotheism now, to be sure they owe us something, if it wasn't a part of a previous deal. The other continent has Monotheism, so that would stop any trades from across the ocean as well. And if it was an expected payment, they should have it anyway.

	03-12-2004 22:03									#324
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Definitely send them Monotheism. We've been able to work out details in good faith even with one end of the trade in hand with no problems all along.

Nice quote.

Last edited by Solomwi on 03-12-2004 at 22:09

	03-12-2004 22:33									#325
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Save played, Monotheism sent, accepted.

	04-12-2004 19:31									#326
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CoD reporting action on the front:

quote: Hi Pythons, Many thanks for Monotheism, we sent Silks accepted. Let's hope it arrives this time. Here is the news: HMS Dumpy attacks and destroys reg Monkey Galley at Macaque11, losing no HP! Chimp87 has been pillaged by a vet archer, a further suggestion that they are abandong their core. CoD Stack moves east to Orang89, ready to move south on Orang next turn. 2 Horses proceed to hill & mountain to check no Monkey galleys visible on that side. They can rejoin next turn. 1 LB joins stack from north. Healing horses remain at Gorilla87

	07-12-2004 13:27									#327
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The save came in with Silks accepted - two sources. So it looks like CoD did try to send those a turn ago, and the game messed things up like they said. I'll send them that info as well.

	11-12-2004 01:30									#328
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Message from Cort Haus:

quote: Monkey have departed from their script, and disbanded the city before we could get there. I moved a horse onto the mountain for a look. That's 16 NM, 7 Archers, 5 Cats on the stack. Out west we can see 4 NM, 3 Cat, 2 Archers.

	11-12-2004 02:20									#329
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Look, what I got from Trip

quote: Greetings from Team Sunshine. My team wishes to inquire about possible tech trades. We complete Theology in a few turns, and are willing to trade it for either Invention or for Gunpowder and some gold along with a no-trade agreement on both sides, of course. I understand that Python and CoD researched Invention and possibly Gunpowder collectively, so perhaps a 3-team deal can be worked out, with the Python-CoD Alliance will make an offer with further compensation to Sunshine to allow the transfer of Theology to both teams. Thanks, hope to hear back soon. Trip Leader Team Sunshine

Thoughts?

	11-12-2004 18:58									#330
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From Cort Haus. This concerns battle plans (see previous message from Cort Haus - it has the relevant screenie).

quote: For some reason Monkey is showing us 30 units. What I also don't get is how this time there is no pillage unit left on the city tile, and no road. If we both move due south as originally intended for the approach to the now-extinct Orang, Monkey could hit your stack without us covering and be able to retreat to safety. However, we know their forces are not all available to strke, as at least nine units are out west. If Python moved south-east or southwest monkey can't hit you this turn, but we know that they can't hit you with everything anyway. Due south for the CoD stack looks attractive as there are hills all the way down to Pri Cent which they can't attack us on. Are you guys tempted to split the stacks at this point with CoD heading for PriCent and Python heading west? Or would you prefer to keep formation, move '3' and head for PriCent together? The third, most direct option (both move south) gives Monkey a chance to hit you, but not with everything? Any thoughts?