02-03-2004 07:52									#181
	Increase the size of your Attachments

From Arrian:

quote: Octavian, Heya, I've just returned from my vacation, and find the war in progress, and a new contact (Tabemono) has been made. They've just met us, apparently on their turn, after ours. Rigth, tech issues: 1) Barracks money for 4-point debt. Ok, sure. Consider that gone. 2) Mysticism. Ack, how a tech devalues. We would still like to be the supplier. Have you made any progress on buying Construction? Best case is that you can purchase it without a NDA restriction and sell it to us. Anyway, back to Mysticism... would you consider buying it from us for 48 gold? 3) Polytheism. We will finish this tech next turn. Clearly, we'd like to sell it to you as well. Dunno what to charge for it at this point, given that it too is known 'round the world, apparently. 4) Back to Construction. We (as in both teams) really need this tech! I was hoping Python could manage to buy it for the both of us by now, but I had a feeling it wasn't going to be that easy, since diplomacy in demogames can sometimes move at a truely glacial pace. Can you renew your attempts and keep us informed of the outcome? The sooner we get Construction, the sooner CoD can push ahead with Engineering research. 5) Warrior Code/HBR... I cannot recall if we ever actually came to any agreement on prices for those. I think we had figured they were going towards the price of Construction (along with Mysticism and Polytheism). As that whole structure has vanished with contact with LL & Tabemono, I guess a cash deal is best. It seems LL is going with editor cost * 12 as their pricing for devalued techs, which would mean 60g for HBR and 36g for WC. That sounds ok to me. Next issue: we have connected our 2nd supply of silks, and I sent it to you accepted. Enjoy. I also sent your our worldmap. Best to keep up to date on such things. Our main troop stack, such as it is, is now at Silkfest44 (next to your massive stack of doom). 6 horse, 1 sword, 1 spear and a settler. It is my intention to replace Mandril (Monkey abandoned) with that settler, while moving our troops southward to assist you. I have little doubt Monkey are playing this smart and are going to turtle in their core. I hope our pillaging forces (currently at Siamang666) can disrupt that. Next issue: contact/map trading issues... Tabemono's note to us indicated they wanted to trade maps and they wanted contact with Monkey. Either they are making an educated guess, or someone told them we are in contact with Monkey. It is our intention to stall them on contact trading for now. I think we may want to coordinate policy on both contacts and maps. As it stands, we effectively have the same WM. Additionally, our WMs clearly show Monkey, and show ruins on the Monkey/CoD border. So I figure we might want to either stick to trading territory maps with other civs. What do you think? Additionally, the time is fast approaching when we will need to work out deals with LL and Tabemono concerning Monkey. Look at Monkey's diplomatic note to you guys! They will offer another team the moon to save their furry hides. Once they meet LL and/or Tabemono, we've got trouble. Any ideas on how to manage that? Finally, regarding Monkey's message to you... I am amused they think it was CoD's idea to attack them. I also have this irrational urge to tell conmcb25 (who was my diplo contact on Monkey) it wasn't so. But I'll leave that to you, if you wish. Demanding they leave the continent... well, I can't imagine they would agree to that. Not until they've been well and truely crushed. And at that point, they will no doubt be negotiating with other teams for survival. -Arrian

To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, Welcome back! I hope your trip went well. 1. Sounds good to me. Glad we got that figured out. 2. 48g for Mysticism sounds good to me. I'd much rather we keep the gold on the continent rather than sending the gold to the other continent. 3. Again, we'll probably buy it from you, or at least work it out with Constrution. 4. I'll have Darekill talk to LL soon about Construction. They want 240g, I think, though I think we can talk them to a lower price consider our progess (14 turns left, I think). 5. Those sound like good prices. Well, will this work out? HBR = 5 (editor tech points) WC = 3 Poly = 12 Total = 20 Construction = 20 For HBR, WC, and Polytheism, we'll give you guys Construction. That works out fairly in regard to tech points. We'll also pay you guys 48g for Mysticism. How does that sound? ----- Thanks for the silks. I'll send, accpted, our WM. Mandril: sounds like a good plan to me. If CoD concentrates on the northern front (there was one other city up near Silkfest other than Bonobo and Mandril, IIRC), we'll at least have your front relatively secure as we continue the march south. I'll probably slow down our march, so as to complete the war road. A few squares are left between the jungle our stack is currently and the road that once led to Bonobo. As for other-continent diplomacy: I agree, the more we can keep those two out of our business, the better. I think our best route is to deny them WM/TM/contact trades, unless they sign with both of us an NDA that precludes them from interfering with continental affairs, trying our best not to mention the Monkey war. I'm thinking, though, that they really won't be able to hurt us for some time, Monkey or no Monkey. I think it's obvious a naval invasion is almost impossible, at best, for the time being. Besides, GS will, I think, serve as the best detterent. This situation is almost the same as the last Bobian war. One nation tries to save another on another continent, despite the fact that the victim is being attacked by two allied civs. I bet it won't happen again. As for Monkey, again, my inkling tells me that no one will really want to save them, and if someone did, they wouldn't be able to short of giving them territory on the other continent. Soon, we'll probably send them a short message of rejection, even if it is a bit humorous a la Monty Python. ~Octavian X

	02-03-2004 07:56									#182
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Darekill, if you'll get ahold of LL, see what they want for Construction, and try to get a price that doesn't include an NDA.

	02-03-2004 11:26									#183
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Is this policy of keeping Comedic affairs strictly between Comedians going to be called the Arrian Doctrine or Octavian Doctrine? This is a grave issue at hand.

	02-03-2004 13:07									#184
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Send to Niessuh of LL

quote: Hi, it's been some days since I had the pleasure to write to you. Now I've been authorized by OctavianX to send you the following proposal: We would like to buy construction from you we'd pay you 300gold and would like to get it with no restrictions concerning it's resaleability. If I recall right it was the price that you mentioned. So if it is still available please send the offer acceptet with the next turn and we will pay it. If you have made up your mind and want to have something different, please feel free to contact me Greetings Darekill Ambasador to Latin Lovers and founder of F.U.C.K.

	03-03-2004 09:03									#185
	Put an end to popups!

Duel Messages from Arrain:

quote: Octavian, It did, thanks. WC+HBR+Poly for Construction sounds fine to me. Good luck to Darekill in his quest for the holy tech (or something like that) 48g for Mysticism is a done deal then. Next time we get the save, we can send you Mysticism. Regarding the war... If I were you, I'd press ahead as fast as possible. Connecting the road is nice for reinforcements, but why slow up the main stack? Every turn of delay is a turn Monkey can use to dig in. It's your decision, of course, but my advice is Chhaaaarge! CoD's troops are following behind you as best we can for now... once we get past the hills southwest of Silkfest I hope to get them alongside your forces, so that our horsemen can be used in tandem with your main stack. Additionally, it is my intent to bring our galleys around after having dropped off our pillaging force near Primate Central (I believe the drop-off date is T106), and have those ships transport some troops over to Monkey's island city. Regarding somebody saving Monkey - I never meant direct military intervention. I meant what Lego did for Vox, what Vox did for Lux (briefly) and what GS did for RP. Gifting of a city or more so that the civ survives, vassalized. Granted, Monkey isn't scientific, so their vassal value is lower than Vox or Lux. It only makes sense if a civ has an area like Lego Minor or North Stormia that a pet civ can make productive for them. We will see, I guess... -Arrian

quote: Octavian, Something for us to discuss... CoD just received the following message from Tabemono: quote: Howdy Arrian, This is both at once a private matter, but one that concerns the teams as well. Reguarding the nature of trading maps, we certainly will agree to a territory-territory map trade, however, I am here to propose that it is in our best and fullest interest that we trade WORLD maps as well. Can it be said what your team knows of your landmass? I can tell you with no hesitation that we engineered a complete and full map trade with each of the other three nations on our continent. We are prepared to send you the most up to date map of this continent you could hope to achieve at this point. Surely you can see the value that this would present? My best hope is that your team has an equally worthy map of your own continent, and that by sharing, we would each benefit mutually, and equally. Can you say what you know of your own continent then? You have my personal assurance that you would NOT be on the short end if we agree to a WM for WM trade. - UnOrthOdOx Here was my quick response: quote: UnO, Thanks for this message. First, I can say that yes, we do have a complete map of our continent (we are, after all, expansionist ). I will bring your offer back to my team for discussion (such as it is, there aren't many of us) and get back to you. Though there may be benifits to trading maps, there are also potential drawbacks, as I'm sure you are aware. Secrecy, while it does not help build trust, can be a lifesaver in certain situations. So bear with me on this, ok? Don't get too annoyed if we ponder this one for a little while. If there is a delay, it is not the result of some animosity from my team to yours, but rather the result of caution (even if you may think it overcaution) on our part. Thanks, -Arrian I would like to see the rest of the world. However, the moment our world map goes out to the rest of the world, they will see ruins in Monkeyland and our secret war will be secret no longer. Plus, it's possible the map may assist the other teams in making contact with Monkey earlier than they otherwise would. Finally, the map would display our continent's lack of iron for all the world to see, which might in time prove fatal. What do you think? -Arrian

	03-03-2004 09:45									#186
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To CoD:

quote: Arrian, In response to your first message: Good news. We'll be sending you 48g this turn. Concerning your military advice: I hadn't factored the possibiliy of even greater Monkey forces, really. We'll complete the road, but we won't make the main force wait. A spear will just babysit the workers for the moment. In regard to Tabejin's message... Definetly, the more hidden we keep Monkey from the rest of the world, the better. Just keep an eye on their galleys - I'm pretty sure that both LL and Tamebono's galleys are going northward. We should make those deals when they get close to Monkey territory. Because of the iron situation, WMs are out of the question entirely. We definetly don't want them to know about our lack of iron, so if we can keep the continent hidden for the most part, we're in better shape. BTW, I'm chatting with Uno and Kloreep of Tamebono as I type. They've offered us contact with MAST and Sunshine for contact with Monkey. I'm still acting on the assumption that Monkey's contact shouldn't be traded as long as possible, so the stalling continues. On Construction: An NDA with Sunshine prevents them from selling construction, and that NDA expires one turn before we'd discover construction ourselves. Darekill has sent a message to LL asking 300g for Construction w/o an NDA. ~Octavian X

	03-03-2004 10:48									#187
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To Monkey along with our turn:

quote: Team Monkey: After much consideration, our Ministry of Issuing Polite Rejctions has decided to issue a polite rejection to your offer of becoming our vassal state. We still feel, frankly, that your territory will still be better in the hands of our Master, Guy de Loimbard. The Ministry of Understanding hopes you understand our position. Thank you, Octavian X Supreme Lord Despot That's Trying to Overthrow Himself as Supreme Lord Despot, and all around Useless Fat Guy of Team Monty Python.

	03-03-2004 11:15									#188
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Chat with Tabejin:

[quote]
Session Start: Tue Mar 02 22:22:45 2004
Session Ident: #feast
[22:22:45] •››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››› ››››› ››› ›› ›› ›› › ›
[22:22:45] • Now talking in: (#feast)
[22:22:45] •››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››› ››››› ››› ›› ›› ›› › ›
[22:22:45] • Users: (2), Ops: (1/50%), Voiced: (0/0%), Regs: (1/50%)
[22:22:45] • Join synced in: (0.062) secs
[22:22:45] •››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››› ››››› ››› ›› ›› ›› › ›
[22:23:00] [@UnOrthOdOx] Zargon and Kloreep will be in shortly.
[22:23:01] • Join: (Kloreep) (~ben@66-90-199-193.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
[22:23:08] [Octavian_X] that sounds good.
[22:23:19] • Mode: (UnOrthOdOx) sets (+k taco)
[22:23:53] [@UnOrthOdOx] Zargon is having troubles.
[22:23:57] [@UnOrthOdOx] What's on your mind?
[22:23:59] [Octavian_X] heh - that's what I had for lunch..,
[22:24:27] [Octavian_X] First off, I have to tell you that we must politely reject your offer for the purchase of Mysticism.
[22:24:44] [Octavian_X] We do appreciate your willingness to sell it to us, though.
[22:24:51] [@UnOrthOdOx] It happens.
[22:25:37] [@UnOrthOdOx] We expected as much, actually, but couldn't get a lower offer to you in time.
[22:25:51] [Octavian_X] We chose to go for a slightly cheaper deal with one of our continental neighbors.
[22:26:33] [Octavian_X] Do you guys have construction? That's the next tech we're looking to buy.
[22:26:37] •››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››› ››››› ››› ›› ›› ›› › ›
[22:26:37] • Whois report for (UnOrthOdOx) (~unorthodo@ACC5E745.ipt.aol.com)
[22:26:37] • Name: UnOrthOdOx
[22:26:37] • Channels: @#feast #gow #apolyton
[22:26:37] • Server: apolyton.net, Apolyton IRC Server
[22:26:37] • Idle: 5secs
[22:26:37] • SignOn: 2hrs 37mins 24secs ago
[22:26:37] •››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››››› ››››› ››› ›› ›› ›› › ›
[22:26:59] [@UnOrthOdOx] Yes, we do in fact have Construction.
[22:27:27] [@UnOrthOdOx] However, due to a previous arrangement with team Sunshine, we would be unable to trade it at this time.
[22:27:40] [@UnOrthOdOx] That said, I have a proposition.
[22:27:45] [Octavian_X] I'm all ears.
[22:28:22] [@UnOrthOdOx] We would be willing to trade contact with BOTH sunshine and MAST to you in return for Monkey contact.
[22:28:59] [@UnOrthOdOx] This will allow you to work a deal with sunshine directly instead of waiting for the deals I am sure they have made everyone sign to not trade it.
[22:29:14] [Octavian_X] Now that's interesting...
[22:29:50] [@UnOrthOdOx] In what way?
[22:30:12] [Octavian_X] A two for one deal is always interesting.
[22:30:36] [Octavian_X] It definetly sounds like a good idea to me, but we'll certainly have to discuss it for a little bit.
[22:31:00] [@UnOrthOdOx] Well, you will find as I take over a little diplomacy, I favor good relations almost as much as I do a good deal.
[22:31:51] [@UnOrthOdOx] Call it an act of good will, if you will.
[22:32:54] [Octavian_X] My team's only real reservation would be the use of contacts as good leverage in tech trades. As you can tell, we're looking at buying our ways into the Middle Ages, and at least my thought is that Monkey's contact is more valuable as a chip in a tech deal.
[22:35:13] [@UnOrthOdOx] We could perhaps attach a clause that we agree not to trade contact with Monkey then?
[22:35:27] [@UnOrthOdOx] We cannot trade Construction for 10 turns IIRC.
[22:36:10] [@UnOrthOdOx] So, with you having 10 turns to make a deal directly with Sunshine, tossing in Monkey contact, perhaps?
[22:36:39] [@UnOrthOdOx] Otherwise, I would highly recomend my team give you a very fair deal for Const at the end of that time.
[22:37:21] [Octavian_X] Well, we can get construction from other places. What would you be looking to charge for Construction, without an NDA?
[22:38:24] [@UnOrthOdOx] I am one who is far more lenient.
[22:38:40] [@UnOrthOdOx] I'm told it's more like 12 turns.
[22:38:59] [@UnOrthOdOx] But I'ld have to confer with the tech experts on a price.
[22:39:24] [@UnOrthOdOx] I'll do my best to beat some sense...er I mean make them offer it at a reasonable price.
[22:39:36] [Octavian_X] hehe
[22:40:05] [Octavian_X] Actually, now that I think about it, that may not work as well for us.
[22:40:29] [@UnOrthOdOx] One expert is advising to ask for 300.
[22:40:37] [Octavian_X] IIRC, we'll have construction in thirteen turns as an effort of our own research.
[22:40:42] [Kloreep] You can refer to me by name UnO
[22:41:22] [Kloreep] Ah
[22:41:24] [@UnOrthOdOx] Sunshine is the one to talk to if you require it sooner then, I'm afraid
[22:41:55] • Join: (ZargonX) (~Joel@tow28dhcp2.towson01.md.comcast.net)
[22:42:22] • Quit: (Kloreep) (~ben@66-90-199-193.dyn.grandenetworks.net) (Excess Flood)
[22:42:35] • Mode: (UnOrthOdOx) sets (+o Octavian_X)
[22:42:38] • Mode: (UnOrthOdOx) sets (+o ZargonX)
[22:42:44] [@UnOrthOdOx] Odd.
[22:42:53] [@UnOrthOdOx] never seen that disconnect before.
[22:43:01] [@Octavian_X] He must've tried to paste too much at once.
[22:43:14] [@Octavian_X] Servers will disconnect you if your trying to enter too many lines too fast.
[22:43:31] • Join: (Kloreep) (~ben@66-90-199-193.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
[22:44:02] [@UnOrthOdOx] So then, was there any other business at hand?
[22:44:24] [@UnOrthOdOx] Territory for territory map trade is confirmed, correct?
[22:44:42] [@UnOrthOdOx] If so I'll poke the turn players to send ours next turn.
[22:46:50] [@Octavian_X] I 'll have to say just not yet. We're still discussing possibilities of map trades as well. Even if there are just a few of us, we like to be thorough. :P
[22:46:53] [@Octavian_X]
[22:47:20] [@UnOrthOdOx] Alright.
[22:47:25] [@UnOrthOdOx] I'll let you in on something.
[22:47:46] [@UnOrthOdOx] I have made a unified world map something of a personal quest in this game.
[22:48:28] [@UnOrthOdOx] I hope to have all teams contribute that there can be a public map posted, complete with advertising and news items so that new blood will be attracted to the game.
[22:49:29] [@UnOrthOdOx] I simply feel that this is in the best interest of the game as a whole, and as a biproduct for all the teams involved.
[22:49:35] [@Octavian_X] The Quest for the World Map. That doesn't sound like a bad idea, though it does come into some conflict with other internal team policy.
[22:50:02] [@UnOrthOdOx] Your own team?
[22:50:20] [@UnOrthOdOx] As far as 'spirit' of the game internal policy, not at all.
[22:50:41] [@UnOrthOdOx] If everyone IN game has a copy of the map, there is no reason to keep it out of the public forum at all.
[22:51:21] [@UnOrthOdOx] I'm not saying it'll happen. It's something I think the game needs in order to attract new blood.
[22:51:25] [@Octavian_X] That's true.
[22:51:29] [@UnOrthOdOx] All teams are low in numbers.
[22:51:46] [@UnOrthOdOx] What better method of attracting new members?
[22:51:59] [@UnOrthOdOx] As for updates to the map, yes those will be tricky.
[22:52:13] [@Octavian_X] Yes, there are secrecy issues involved.
[22:52:47] [@UnOrthOdOx] I'm considering the first version should be ctrl-shift-m so that no cities are shown, and a simple outline of "so and so lives here" would be best.
[22:53:54] [@Octavian_X] Or, better yet, do it like a political map that you see in textbooks.
[22:54:14] [@Octavian_X] Forgo actual terrain features, just do a drawing of the continental outline and borders.
[22:54:29] [@UnOrthOdOx] THAT would require artistic work.
[22:54:45] • @UnOrthOdOx is NO artist.
[22:55:25] [@UnOrthOdOx] Again, though, if all teams IN GAME have the exact same map, one should be able to post it publicly.
[22:56:36] [@UnOrthOdOx] the only thing I'll need to remove is my own teams units and city-builds
[22:56:57] [@UnOrthOdOx] Which is why the ctrl-shift-m comes into play
[22:59:01] [@UnOrthOdOx] Anyway, I'm working on the idea more formally now.
[22:59:11] [@UnOrthOdOx] Back on topic.
[22:59:19] [@UnOrthOdOx] Was there any other business at hand?
[23:00:33] [@Octavian_X] None that I can really think of.
[23:00:49] [@UnOrthOdOx] So, 2 for 1 contacts, let us know.
[23:00:50] [@Octavian_X] I'm sorry if I seem distracted - I'm playing our save atm.
[23:01:06] [@UnOrthOdOx] You should know that I have sent the same offer to CoD as well.
[23:01:11] [@UnOrthOdOx] First come, first serve.
[23:02:06] [@Octavian_X] We'll keep that in mind as we deliberate and spam to create our next public annoucement.

	03-03-2004 12:13									#189
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The response from the Latin lovers:

quote: RE: Construction? Great, we will send it accepted next turn

That's what I call quick and dirty and good!

	04-03-2004 03:46									#190
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

From Arrian:

quote: Octavian, UnO has been pestering me nonstop about map trading, and has now switched over to contact trading. He offered the same deal to us - MAST + Sunshine for Monkey. If the galleys are positioned such that contact with Monkey without a trade is a long way off for Tabemono, then I agree we should refuse to trade maps and contacts, and throw everything we have into trying to destroy Monkey. This comes at a price, of course. We won't get to see the rest of the world, and our research costs will remain higher than they otherwise would (assuming that SS and MAST have techs we don't, which I think is a fair assumption to make). Additionally, the other teams will think us annoyingly secretive. I wish there was a way to trade maps with the resources wiped off. Keep us informed of Darekill's progress on Construction. Thanks! -Arrian

	04-03-2004 03:53									#191
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, You're plan of action in regard to Monkey and contact trading sounds good. This probably should warrant a slight change in our own strategy. Two ideas come to mind - trying to blockade foreign galleys coming down CoD's coast, or simply going first for Monkey cities that would be most likely to be spotted by a foreign galley first, assuming they come down by CoD's coast. And, we have great news in regard to construction - LL agreed to a 300g deal for construction without an NDA! We'll send it to you guys ASAP. ~Octavian X

	04-03-2004 22:23									#192
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Territory map trade and, based on what we find, send a galley as far as possible to try to get the other contacts? Hopefully, we'd be able to go undetected at least long enough to get Monkey out of the way, and can then offer alligator tears over not being able, due to circumstances, to trade Monkey's contact. If Tabemono and LL are heading north, we'll need to be sure they get by our port befor launching, obviously. The big question if we consider this is whether we have a city we can spare to build the galley.

	05-03-2004 09:08									#193
	Inflate your Upload Space

Duel PMs from Arrian:

quote: Octavian, Fantastic news about construction. We will send you Polytheism and get started on Engineering right away. Blockading galleys just isn't feasible - it requires a lot of ships we don't have - but hopefully the galley we've rushed out on the west coast can sail down and stop Monkey from sailing north along that coastline. We shall see. -Arrian

quote: Octavian, Cake or Death's glorious crossdressing horde has struck its first blow in the War for Lumberjack Liberty! That is to say we killed a regular warrior west of the ruins of Mandril By the way, I forgot to ask: have you fought any battles yet, or has Monkey just been retreating in front of you? Our galleys continue southward, and have not yet been spotted. We have sent you Mysticism, accepted. We will send you Polytheism next turn, at which point hopefully we will receive Construction and be able to start Engineering research. -Arrian

	05-03-2004 09:26									#194
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, The blockade was just one of the many random ideas that make up my mind. Still, though, sea defenses to take out Monkey ships, especially those that may contain troops, are a good idea. No, we've not attacked Monkey troops. IIRC, we're still at an in-game state of peace. The more we can avoid WW, the better. And, the construction plans sound good. ~Octavian X

	06-03-2004 10:57									#195
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From CoD:

quote: Octavian, Really? You're still at peace? Hmm. Well, I guess they just declared war on us then. Works for me - positive WW. We plan to land our pillage force at Orangutan3 next turn. We had originally planned on Primate Central 96, but changed our minds. We saw neither LL nor Tabemono's galleys last turn. I recall you saying they were sailing north. If that's true, I think we might really have a shot at wiping Monkey out before they meet anybody. *crosses fingers* -Arrian

	06-03-2004 11:23									#196
	Remove this text

To CoD;

quote: Arrian, Best of luck with the pillaging operations. We're still advancing south, and I'm deliberately trying to avoid declarations of war. In 2 turns, our despotism becomes a republic, and I go from Supreme Despot of Life to Supreme Prime Minister for Life... Sent construction accepted to CoD this turn as well, along with a world map to spot out barb camps as necessary. ~Octavian X

	08-03-2004 08:17									#197
	Increase Your PM Length

This must do wonders for my post count as well.

quote: Octavian, Thanks for Construction & the WM. Polytheism and our WM have been sent in return. CoD has set research for Engineering, due in 14 turns, running a 15gpt deficit. Our support costs are pretty high. Does Python wish to split the cost of our research 50/50, or do you want to do your own research and trade techs? I can push our tech rate faster, but CoD would need money from Python. If you are going to do your own research, I'm not going to go past -15gpt. FYI - Tabemono galley sighted at New Plymouth12. We just completed a galley in N. Plymouth, and we *could* get just in front of their galley, but we will be unable to block them with just 1 ship. Additionally, it is possible that we could find and sink a Monkey galley sailing north (that is if they're even doing that) before contact was made with Tabemono, but the chances aren't good. Monkey moves before us, and even if we find their galley first and manage to attack, we would have to sink it in 1-on-1 combat... the odds of which are ~45% if their galley is also a regular. I'm actually holding off finishing our turn while we decide whether to sail south, or westward in search of MAST & SS. -Arrian

	10-03-2004 11:46									#198
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, In regard to our barbie problems, I've called out the defenses for most of our interior cities. They only really served as military police, and that'll be useless come republic. 2 regular warriors are in Holy Grail, and I think they've a good chance of surviving the first round. In the mean time, we've sent, accepted, 502g, leaving ourselves with enough to pay maintinence +50g cushion. In regard to research, I'll first see what we can afford in Republic. It would really depend on how fast we could do our own research, and what kind of cash we can rake in. Also, this may not be as important, but an inkling tells me that MAST and SS aren't all that important currently, especially since Tabejin is more than happy to throw contacts at us. ~Octavian X

	11-03-2004 06:10									#199
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From Monkey:

quote: Gentlemen - as we head into an interesting phase of the game, we would like to clarify a point of conduct. Beta would like to post a new thread in the public forum, which, if anybody puts 2 and 2 together, will figure out what is going on over here. He wants to introduce everyone to SPAM - the Society for the Prevention of Aggression against Monkeys. He has some campaign literature planned, along with some heart-rending pictures. But as we have clearly not met all civs in the world yet - this is, at some level, sharing info that would not normally be known. Beta assures me that the intent is solely for entertainment purposes, and hopefully liven up a pretty dead forum, but undertstands if you would rather that this not happen - given that he might - er - sway - albeit, purely by accident - world opinion. We acknowledge that this is intended to be more light-hearted affair, but we also acknowledge that it is still a legit civ3 demo game, so we seek your approval before doing so. Please let us know. Thanks. conmcb25 Monkey Ambassador.

	11-03-2004 06:16									#200
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To Monkey:

quote: conmcb, Sorry, but I really am uncomfortable with the idea of such postings until we've made contact with the rest of the world, at least in this game. To me, it goes against the spirit of the idea that we should refrain from diplomatic communication with unmet teams. Any materials both our sides release will more than likely be targetted at convincing the others to support one side or the other - whether meant for in a humorous fashion or not. This would differ from previous Monty Python public annoucements, which were spam, and had nothing to do with any of our actual affairs. After everyone has made contact with everyone else, let the free for all begin. Admittedly, I'm wondering what Beta thinks about that whole situation. ~Octavian X Supreme Revolutionary Leader Attempting to Overthrow Himself as Supreme Despot

	11-03-2004 06:17									#201
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From Arrian:

quote: Octavian, Roger that, 502g. Good luck with the barbs. Understood on the tech situation. Though we may want to investigate trades with LL and/or Tabemono too, before you make a decision on research. I think we may find those other teams are going to make contact with us on their own, and that's the reason Tabemono is so eager to trade. Speaking of Tabemono... I realized there was no way we could have gotten far enough in front of their galley to prevent contact with Monkey should Monkey have a galley sailing north. Hence, our galley went west, towards the crossing to LL. We have coastwatchers down in the southwest (as do you, IIRC - you have a regular warrior down there), and we are moving them southward, so we should have some warning of imminent contact. However, I don't think we can wipe Monkey out before Tabemono's galley finds them. We shall see. -Arrian

	11-03-2004 06:23									#202
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, Next turn, I'll try to remember to check to see what LL and Tamebono have to offer us in regard to Middle Ages tech. It appears to me that Tabejin was taking our strategy to heart by buying techs from Sunshine, as indicated by their NDA with it. LL, though, appears to be in a selling mode, so I'm guessing they're trying to do as much research as possible on their own. LL, then, is probably our best bet. I'll move our watcher warrior closer to the coast. I'm also thinking Python should build a galley somewhere on our coast, since that's where the other continent seems to have found a safe crossing. It's worth a try, I think. Maybe when a build queue spot opens up - Witch Village is working on a Courthouse, maybe after that. This is the reply I sent to Monkey's message: quote: conmcb, Sorry, but I really am uncomfortable with the idea of such postings until we've made contact with the rest of the world, at least in this game. To me, it goes against the spirit of the idea that we should refrain from diplomatic communication with unmet teams. Any materials both our sides release will more than likely be targetted at convincing the others to support one side or the other - whether meant for in a humorous fashion or not. This would differ from previous Monty Python public annoucements, which were spam, and had nothing to do with any of our actual affairs. After everyone has made contact with everyone else, let the free for all begin. Admittedly, I'm wondering what Beta thinks about that whole situation. ~Octavian X Supreme Revolutionary Leader Attempting to Overthrow Himself as Supreme Despot ~Octavian X

	18-03-2004 09:20									#203
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From Arrian:

quote: Octavian, Tabemono's galley continues southward, and we estimate approximately 7 turns until contact is made with Monkey (and that assumes there is no monkey galley sailing north). It's physically impossible to destroy Monkey in 7 turns. Even double that would be a good showing, I think. Therefore, we think we should go ahead with contact trading. If I can negotiate a non-inteference condition so that the others don't save Monkey, I will. Let me know when you want you 502 gold back, ok? -Arrian

	18-03-2004 09:23									#204
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, Just to throw this out there - what do you think about attacking Tamebono's galley? It's a bad idea, I know, but it's still a valid option if we're that desperate. Otherwise, I like the idea of trading contacts with something like a NAP attached. Keep the 502g for now, just in case. We didn't lose any units last turn to barbs, and do have a positive cash flow. I'll ask you to send it back when we have those barbs safely under control. ~Octavian X

	19-03-2004 10:43									#205
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From Arrian. Will reply tomorrow:

quote: Octavian, We cannot attack their galley. Ours sailed west, and is not in transit southward along LL's coastline. Plus, it's just not a good idea, IMO. The deal currently under discussion with Tabemono is this: 1) We trade contacts (they give us contact with SS & MAST, we give contact with Monkey), but there is a no-trade clause. They can't pass on contact with Monkey, and we can't pass on SS & MAST. 2) We trade world maps, but CAN trade those on. We will pass on the WM to you. 3) Tabemono & CoD each agree to a "non-intereference" pact of 50 turn duration. This specifically includes "saving" another civ via city gifting. I told them about the war. But, considering the terms of the deal, we are in good shape. Tabemono's galley is the only one even close to Monkey. They won't trade the contacts on, and even with the maps, the other teams will have to sail their ships down to Monkey before we kill them. We ought to be able to see that coming, and negotiate with the others for non-interference. All that remains is for Tabemono & CoD to ratify the agreement. I hope their team goes for it, because I think it's a favorable deal for us. We've also been discussing tech dealing. Apparently, Tabemono is "researching" feudalism at 40-turn pace, and doing what Unorthodox refers to as an "emergency buildup" because another team has been building cities right up on their border, and has been known to be doing "research" for quite some time. I suspect this might be Latin Lover, since UnO seemed quite worried. I told UnO that CoD wanted Python included in any tech arrangements we made, and that we were currently researching Engineering, while you were finishing up your switch to republic. I asked for their discovery date on Feudalism. Let's see how long it will take them, and then work out what we want to do. We have no particular use for feudalism yet, since we have no iron, but it is needed for Invention (mmm, Leos) and the gunpowder route. We could split the cost of Engineering between us (you give us gold equivalent to 1/2 our research cost) and just hold that out of trading, and then research Monotheism for trade. I dunno. Let's see what they say. -Arrian

	20-03-2004 04:35									#206
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Again, from Arrian:

quote: That bit about our galley should read: "now in transit along LL's coastline" as opposed to "not in transit." -Arrian

quote: Octavian, Discussions with Tabemono are proceeding well. They've agreed to the non-intervention pact and the conditions on the contact trades. Tech trade discussions are also proceeding. We're currently discussing an engineering for feudalism trade, with the understanding that each side can pass on the tech they get to 1 other team each. So we would give you feudalism, and Tabemono said they will send engineering to MAST. There is a 4 point difference in tech cost (engineering is bigger, IIRC) that will be deferred to future deals. They will have feudalism by the time we have engineering (before then, actually). Apparently, SS is researching Monotheism, after having received Engineering as their free tech (so at least when CoD gets contact with them, our research costs will drop a little bit). My suggestion for engineering/feudalism is this, then: Python pays CoD for half of the research cost of engineering. You then get engineering and feudalism. I think that engineering is 864 beakers on this level/map size. So we're talking about 432 gold, or something close to that figure - I'll have to use the tech devaluation formula to figure out what contact with SS will do. It will probably still be around 400 gold. What do you think about that? -Arrian

___________

	20-03-2004 07:01									#207
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, I'm filling in for Octavian for a few days as Python diplomat to CoD, so please direct Python communiques my way for the time being (what a diplomatic affront ). I can't see anything off in the tech arrangement. You're right that Engineering's 4 points larger than Feudalism, btw. I like the half cost of engineering proposal, and, barring any objections from the others on the team, we'll go for that. Until we get caught up to you guys on contacts, it makes better sense for us to help fund your research on techs SS and/or MAST have, obviously. Solomwi

	22-03-2004 22:00									#208
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From Arrian:

quote: Solomwi, Just so you know, Monkey is most likely now in their Golden Age. When I opened CoD's save last turn (410bc?), our pillaging force down by Orangutan had been wiped out (1 horse, 3 spear). We pillaged all of 1 tile. I know that we had at least 3 numidians tied up dealing with that, though, so Fort Siamang is less well defended than it otherwise might have been. Good luck taking it down! -Arrian

Will respond this evening and, unless someone points out why I shouldn't, let Arrian know about our plans to move to FS2 before bombarding. It may also be worth revisiting that plan to make sure we aren't passing up an opportunity in order to get the perfect setup.

	23-03-2004 08:21									#209
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To Arrian:

quote: Arrian, The Pythonian people mourn the loss of your brave pillagers, and will dance with many trout in their honor. It does play into our hands tactically, if they try to use those numidians to fortify Fort Siamang. We're moving our stack to FS-2 before beginning bombardment, to cut off their escape route. If they don't sacrifice FS, we should catch whatever units they send on flat ground before they reach the town, judging from the location of the pillaged tile. The guess is that they'll shuttle as many units as possible out of FS to defend the rest of their empire. The Monkey Golden Age will certainly make the war bloodier, but I don't see it being enough to save them. On far les pressing matters, I presume you noticed that Latin Lover is in anarchy. I'm not sure we or you can do a whole lot with that information, just thought it worth mentioning in case it happened since CoD's last turn. Solomwi

	24-03-2004 01:03									#210
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From Arrian:

quote: Solomwi, Well, that's the first I've heard of the FS2 plan. Thanks for mentioning it. It makes my job easier. We will muster our horsemen on the hills north of FS, and await your request to attack. Because of turn order, we can attack with our horsemen and then Python can finish off the defenders before Monkey gets to move. You will probably want to bombard for a bit, at least until you can get their walls down. Let us know when you want our horsemen to charge. -Arrian