15-10-2004 03:37									#331
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I tried to start an Alex Scenario game with the new playtest build and it CtD saying powerpoints manager missing. I then started ctp2 again but this time tried a new game and it works fine. Whats witht he powerpoints manager?

	15-10-2004 13:41									#332
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Hi, I've just started my first AE (latest playtest) game. Up to about 500BC. Here are my first impressions:

1) Civ colours: not sure about my starting colour being red by default. Don't wanna look like barbarians!
I started with 8 civs, however 2 of these had very very similar colours (blue and a slightly darker blue), so much so that I find i have to hover over a unit to find which it belongs to! Is there a file listing the order in which the colours are used? Could one of the blues be swapped for something more distinctive?

2) I still find it easy to conquer other civs (about to conquer my 3rd civ, without even 1 of my cities being attacked). However maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe 'hard' isn't difficult enough. How challenging are other playtesters finding the game compared to the original?

These are really my only criticisms. Apart from that it's very impressive. Really like the 'new game' interface. Diplomacy now works(!). And all the civs are exploring a lot by sea.

	15-10-2004 14:44									#333
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Welcome rsewar2...

quote: Originally posted by rsewar2 Hi, I've just started my first AE (latest playtest) game. Up to about 500BC. Here are my first impressions: 1) Civ colours: not sure about my starting colour being red by default. Don't wanna look like barbarians! I started with 8 civs, however 2 of these had very very similar colours (blue and a slightly darker blue), so much so that I find i have to hover over a unit to find which it belongs to! Is there a file listing the order in which the colours are used? Could one of the blues be swapped for something more distinctive?

Unfortunately you can only choose the color of the human civ, before starting a new game click on the "Number of empires" button, the last setting allows you to change your color.

quote: 2) I still find it easy to conquer other civs (about to conquer my 3rd civ, without even 1 of my cities being attacked). However maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe 'hard' isn't difficult enough. How challenging are other playtesters finding the game compared to the original?

Now that the CtP2 AE is almost on par with the CtP2 patch 1.11 the major work that is awaiting the coders is related to the AI and the way to improve it. Calvitix, among others, is already working on the subject but as far as I know his additions have not yet been incorporated into the AE as they need to be tested. This is certainly the most difficult task as changing the AI parameters can have some unpredictable effect on the game and the behavior of the AI civs.

quote: These are really my only criticisms. Apart from that it's very impressive. Really like the 'new game' interface. Diplomacy now works(!). And all the civs are exploring a lot by sea.

Thanks to all the coders!

As you can see the AI has already been improved as far as movement paths, tile improvements and exploration are concerned. The military part of the AI still need much work (amphibious assault for example).

	15-10-2004 20:04									#334
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quote: Originally posted by rsewar2 1) Civ colours: not sure about my starting colour being red by default. Don't wanna look like barbarians! I started with 8 civs, however 2 of these had very very similar colours (blue and a slightly darker blue), so much so that I find i have to hover over a unit to find which it belongs to! Is there a file listing the order in which the colours are used? Could one of the blues be swapped for something more distinctive?

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Unfortunately you can only choose the color of the human civ, before starting a new game click on the "Number of empires" button, the last setting allows you to change your color.

There are 3 or 4 colour palettes with the AE which were developed back in March. You can switch between the palettes by changing the corresponding value (ColorSet from 00 to 01, 02 or 03) in userprofile.txt (near the bottom). Once you have a palette you can live with, you can select your own player colour from the options in the new game setup.

	16-10-2004 00:20									#335
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Thanks Flinx, I didn't remember where were the files and how I could change the default color set.

	16-10-2004 00:33									#336
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Flinx or anyone, how applicable is SLIC code to the source code. I see that SLIC uses a lot of the same functions and accesses the same data. But is it possible to make a SLIC file into a cpp and h file in order to make its functions part of the actual code.

I'm thinking that the unit updater should be a default feature of CTP2 but with a minor addition like creating an update button for the unit and an update/upgrade flag and a calculation of cost to update by subtracting the shield costs and multiplying it by 10 gold (?). I don't think a unit upgrade chain is needed....

	16-10-2004 00:49									#337
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quote: Originally posted by E I'm thinking that the unit updater should be a default feature of CTP2 but with a minor addition like creating an update button for the unit and an update/upgrade flag and a calculation of cost to update by subtracting the shield costs and multiplying it by 10 gold (?). I don't think a unit upgrade chain is needed....

Beware, the cost of the upgrade should be high enough so that the player have an interesting (if not strategical) choice to do but this cost should not be so high that the player would be better advised to produce a new unit and disband the older one.

	16-10-2004 02:45									#338
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By the way Tamerlin if we add the unit updater to the game, then we should give the player the option not to use it, shouldn't we.

-Martin

Last edited by Martin Gühmann on 16-10-2004 at 03:06

	16-10-2004 02:51									#339
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann By the way Tamerlin if we add the unit updater to the game, then we should give the player not to use it, shouldn't we. -Martin

is that:
we should give the player the optionnot to use it, shouldn't we.

	16-10-2004 03:02									#340
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go for it add it to the code. but i think the current model could do with upgrading.

	16-10-2004 03:31									#341
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann By the way Tamerlin if we add the unit updater to the game, then we should give the player the option not to use it, shouldn't we. -Martin

If we can create such an option (say in the Rules window of the New Game screen) then it would be marvellous.

	16-10-2004 04:07									#342
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How about we balance the units first? There you go theres my usual rant aswell

I don't mind having it optional but it needs some ironing out first. Will units be upgradable at all times and anywhere? only in cities? only when you get the tech? will the cost to upgrade be cumulative or will it cost the same to upgrade a hoplite to a machine gunner as an infantryman to a machine gunner?

	16-10-2004 04:35									#343
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I'd say only in cities. And available at any time you got the money. The cost should based on the differnce in shield multiplied a set value of gold per shield. I cant recall how much gold you get per shield for capitalization but I think that would be a good number.

I think this would be great optional. However as it stands it will close an advantage a player has where the human will disband old units and create new ones where the AI tends not to. If the AI is "taught" to upgrade when it has enough money and tries to keep its military modern itd be better.

	16-10-2004 12:57									#344
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Calvitix, among others, is already working on the subject but as far as I know his additions have not yet been incorporated into the AE as they need to be tested. This is certainly the most difficult task as changing the AI parameters can have some unpredictable effect on the game and the behavior of the AI civs.

here is the ctp2.exe with my last update (1.3).

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...Movement1.3.zip

It works quite well on maps with large continent (I'm working on transport problems right now).

	16-10-2004 16:15									#345
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Calvitix, that exe doesn't require the CD so it's probably illegal to destribute here.

	16-10-2004 18:03									#346
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quote: Originally posted by E Flinx or anyone, how applicable is SLIC code to the source code. I see that SLIC uses a lot of the same functions and accesses the same data. But is it possible to make a SLIC file into a cpp and h file in order to make its functions part of the actual code.

It's certainly possible to port it to C++, and in most cases this will not be too dificult, but it cannot be used as-is as source for the game.

	16-10-2004 18:04									#347
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Calvitix, that exe doesn't require the CD so it's probably illegal to destribute here.

It's an executable, not source code, so that shouldn't be a problem.

	16-10-2004 18:56									#348
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Calvitix, that exe doesn't require the CD so it's probably illegal to destribute here.

Actually that question is yet undetermined.
You could argue that if the game required the cd for installation and nothing else it would still satisfy the Activision lisence.

	16-10-2004 19:04									#349
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I'm thinking more about Apolyton than the Activison license firstly, because talk of no-cds and where to get them is not allowed I assumed this was the same and its currently hosted on Apolyton's upload too. Just trying to play it safe.

	16-10-2004 19:19									#350
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I'm thinking more about Apolyton than the Activison license firstly, because talk of no-cds and where to get them is not allowed I assumed this was the same and its currently hosted on Apolyton's upload too. Just trying to play it safe.

Why not asking Activision?

	16-10-2004 19:24									#351
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@Martin

I can't find 'crash.txt'. Where is it?
The crash occurs when I try to save the game. At loading there is no problem. But so I just can load the autosaved game.

	16-10-2004 20:29									#352
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I'm thinking more about Apolyton than the Activison license firstly, because talk of no-cds and where to get them is not allowed I assumed this was the same and its currently hosted on Apolyton's upload too. Just trying to play it safe.

And you're right...

I didn't mind to provide a no-cd exe, I was just upset to forget to put the CD in my drive everytime I want to develop, so I desactivated the check.

I replaced the file :

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...Movement1.3.zip

This is now my last compiled ctp2.exe, so it certainly needs Locutus new files (civ_str,...)

	16-10-2004 23:00									#353
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quote: Originally posted by rdorau @Martin I can't find 'crash.txt'. Where is it? The crash occurs when I try to save the game. At loading there is no problem. But so I just can load the autosaved game.

You have to enable logging, to do it open the userprofile.txt in your ..\ctp2_program\ctp\ folder with any text editor of your choice and change there the line from:

EnableLogs=No

to

EnableLogs=Yes

Then the crash.txt is generated automaticly in a subfolder called logs.

-Martin

	18-10-2004 18:46									#354
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I'm thinking more about Apolyton than the Activison license firstly, because talk of no-cds and where to get them is not allowed I assumed this was the same and its currently hosted on Apolyton's upload too. Just trying to play it safe.

Sorry, I misunderstood you. Ignore my previous comment.

	18-10-2004 20:09									#355
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quote: Originally posted by calvitix And you're right... I didn't mind to provide a no-cd exe, I was just upset to forget to put the CD in my drive everytime I want to develop, so I desactivated the check. I replaced the file : http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...Movement1.3.zip This is now my last compiled ctp2.exe, so it certainly needs Locutus new files (civ_str,...)

Has someone made changes to the path-finding algorithm? Using the build provided by Calvitix, I am getting ridiculous path suggestions. As an example, clicking the green move arrow to move my slaver two squares past an enemy city, which I had successfully captured a slave from last turn, suggests a seven turn route around a city to the south.

It seems to me that longer routes 100% over grassland/plains are suggested over shorter routes crossing forest or hills. Routes which would pass cities or units of another player are never (?) offered, and the shortest bypass route over forest or hills is rejected for longer bypass routes over grassland/plains.

	18-10-2004 21:34									#356
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I'm thinking more about Apolyton than the Activison license firstly, because talk of no-cds and where to get them is not allowed I assumed this was the same and its currently hosted on Apolyton's upload too. Just trying to play it safe.

I was courius and tried to find the rules of this forum, in the FAQ i could find no mention of that rule. Do you know where to find it?

	18-10-2004 22:11									#357
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From the Upload FAQ (bolding mine):

quote: What kind of files are accepted? Only files related to the games we cover are accepted. NO ILLEGAL FILES will be tolerated. All uploads are logged!

The owners of this site have defined no-CD hacks/cracks/patches/whatever as illegal. In fact, pretty much all hacked exes of any kind are deemed illegal, unless the companies who produced the original exes give explicit permission for publication (e.g. as was the case with the v1.21 hack for CtP1, and basically this source code project as well).

	18-10-2004 23:17									#358
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus From the Upload FAQ (bolding mine): The owners of this site have defined no-CD hacks/cracks/patches/whatever as illegal. In fact, pretty much all hacked exes of any kind are deemed illegal, unless the companies who produced the original exes give explicit permission for publication (e.g. as was the case with the v1.21 hack for CtP1, and basically this source code project as well).

Thanks Locutes, thats what i found in the FAQ and the definition you provide gives insight.

For the point of argument: If it is within the boundaries of the souce code EULA, then its OK with apolyton.
Is this true?

	18-10-2004 23:33									#359
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Basically, yes. But if multiple interpretations of the EULA are possible (such as the issue of whether the game should require a CD to play or just for installation), Apolyton's interpretation may differ from yours (or anyone elses).

And obviously, all decisions always lie with the owners of the site. If at any point for any reason they decide they want to impose further restrictions on top of the EULA, they of course have every right to do so for all files made available on this site (though they wouldn't do so without good reason of course).

	18-10-2004 23:57									#360
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx Has someone made changes to the path-finding algorithm? Using the build provided by Calvitix, I am getting ridiculous path suggestions. As an example, clicking the green move arrow to move my slaver two squares past an enemy city, which I had successfully captured a slave from last turn, suggests a seven turn route around a city to the south. It seems to me that longer routes 100% over grassland/plains are suggested over shorter routes crossing forest or hills. Routes which would pass cities or units of another player are never (?) offered, and the shortest bypass route over forest or hills is rejected for longer bypass routes over grassland/plains.

it isn't a terrain types problem. I added a checkfordanger method to the pathfinding, to prevent AI's armies or civilian to be easily killed by bombarding or enemie armies.

the criterion are for now :
if civilian, avoid tiles near cities and enemies armies
if not civilian, avoid tiles near cities and tiles near bigger enemy armies.
when I say avoid, it adds a 'additional' cost to cross those tiles (10000 I think). So in your case the pathfinder prefer that 7 tiles path.

it works great for AI (it save a lot of units), but can be problematic in your case. I wanted to improve it by only checking the tile that ends the movement (armies can cross near the city if they don't stay near at the end of turn), but I didn't have time for now.

What I suggest is to keep that pathfinding for AI, and to make an option to activate it or not for player.

- Calvitix