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Snowflake

Princess

falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:34

01-04-2004 00:32

#31

Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is a very good idea! I think I can help copy and paste other people's work.

Ok seriously, I think in this thread we can all list topics that we think should be covered in this guide. And then different people can claim different topics and start rooting for all the relevent info and perhaps even put them into an artical. Then we submit it to the thread. Then people read them, edit them and comment on them. Then we finalize the guide.

Does this sound practical to you all?

Snowflake

Princess

falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:34

01-04-2004 00:40

#32

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Here are some tipics coming up to my head at the moment which are not covered in Vel's guide and the CGN academy:

Tech availability/choice discussion and spreadsheet done by Minute Mirage, Kody and others

B-drone level research by Kody

Rush build discussion by Kody

Energy park discussion

Chop and Drop method

Some topics at the CGN academy is very good and should be included in this guide or at least linked to:

Secret Project Instabuilding

Pop Booming

There have been many more techniques that have been discussed before I remember, such as the land transport and so on.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 01:37

#33

Got spare money?

quote:
Ok seriously, I think in this thread we can all list topics that we think should be covered in this guide. And then different people can claim different topics and start rooting for all the relevent info and perhaps even put them into an artical. Then we submit it to the thread. Then people read them, edit them and comment on them. Then we finalize the guide.

Almost exactly what I had in mind, although I figured I'd end up doing all the typing and editing

Land transports are a good one - does someone fancy doing the numbers on that to prove how good they are?

Also does some maths head want to find out the best time (and if) you should build the basic facs (rec tanks, rec commons, energy bank, node)

-Jam

Ogie Oglethorpe

King

Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 03:41

#34

Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Jamski

Almost exactly what I had in mind, although I figured I'd end up doing all the typing and editing

Land transports are a good one - does someone fancy doing the numbers on that to prove how good they are?

Also does some maths head want to find out the best time (and if) you should build the basic facs (rec tanks, rec commons, energy bank, node)

-Jam

Land Transports - Since I've been their primary advocate count that one for me.

Ogie Oglethorpe

King

Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 03:54

#35

Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by DataAeolus
Ok Jamski, I found some threads you may be interested. Let me know if I'm doing what you're looking for...

Nessus Canyon (How to put it into a MP game)
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=monsoon+jungle

Creating Snergy
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=monsoon+jungle

Specialist cities
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=monsoon+jungle

Pirates/Aquatic Factions advantages
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=monsoon+jungle

Fungal & Tectonic Payloads Discussion
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=monsoon+jungle

All I can say is,I didn't post as long of posts as Vel did.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 03:55

#36

Remove this text

OK - that's one definite top-notch new article.

I'm playing with the format right now, I'll probably use forum vBB code or HTML to make it "look all pretty"

-Jam

Barinthus

King

A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:34

01-04-2004 09:04

#37

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Last edited by Barinthus on 07-04-2004 at 22:07

Minute Mirage

Prince

Helsinki
Aug 2003
time: 07:34

01-04-2004 11:53

#38

Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 12:06

#39

Put an end to popups!

Oh.

My.

God.

I have a lot to read and edit now!

:notworthy:

I should get cracking or I'll be reading these all week.

-Jam

Dis

Emperor

Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:34

01-04-2004 13:01

#40

Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Is Vel's strategy guide not available anymore? Or do you have to pay for that?

I may actually need that. I started up a game of SMAC recently on Thinker level-which I used to own. But I found myself struggling. It seems I'm a bit rusty after all this time not playing the game. Actually I wasn't struggling that much. I was #1, but the University was overtaking me, I must be doing something wrong in managing my faction. One problem is I can't stay out of war, no one likes me. Devoting resources to war is hurting me.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 13:04

#41

Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Vel's guide is good, but old and we've found tactics since then which are much more advanced. Also Vel talks in generalites, not specifics, which allow the improvement of play only up to a point.

-Jam

Frankychan

King

In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:34

01-04-2004 14:00

#42

Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'd read Laz's stuff.

He was telling me some of his tactics that just blew my mind. He's far more advanced than I could ever be.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 14:47

#43

Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ok, but only if you put me back in your sig. I was there for about 5 hours

-Jam

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 17:10

#44

Inflate your Upload Space

code:


rectanksfaq






Children's Creche



Production
Cost:

5
Rows ( = 40 Minerals with normal Industry )



Maintainance:

1
ec/turn



Provides:

+2
Growth, +1 Effic, +1 Morale*




Notes
: Ok, everyone knows the importance of looking after the
children. For a mere 40 minerals (Roughly = 80 ec) plus 1 ec/turn
(Which the +1 Effic often gives back to you from reduced inefficiency
losses) you have given yourself (with most factions) the ability to
Popboom. Even without the other bonuses, the +2 Growth is easily worth
twice the current cost of the facility. Say, for example, that we build
the Creche in one of our little size 4-5 bases in turn 30, expecting to
end the game around turn 130 (conservative estimates indeed) so we have
to pay the equivelent of 180ec all together over those 100 turns, which
is less than 2 ec/turn. Here comes the good news. Even without
Popbooming, the extra +2 Growth will (assuming there's always enough
food) make the base grow so much faster, that often in the long run the
extra income from a getting a larger base x turns earlier than
otherwise more than pays for the production and maintainace with the
profit gained over a base growing without a Creche.

Assume the Creche makes the base grow to each size 1 turn faster.
Assume also that each extra poppoint is worth a 2-2-2 tile (nothing
special) which has an estimated ec-value of 6. Now with a 50/50
Labs/Econ split, that's 3 extra ecs each time the base grows one turn
earlier (ignoring the other benefits). So, the first growth comes 1
turn earlier, the second comes 2 turns earlier... till the tenth comes
10 turns earlier. That's a total of (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10) x 3 = 165
extra ecs gained in the growth of the base compared to one without a
creche. Ok, then we have to pay for the creche, and that costs an
estimated 180ecs over our 100 turns or so, so we only make a loss of 15
ecs. However... what if the base grows more than only one turn faster?
Depending on the base set-up, its possible to rake huge profits here by
growing 2 turns faster each time (150 ec/base = 1.5 per turn) or 3
turns faster to the next size (315 ec/base = 3.15  ec/turn) 

And that's without figuring in the other advantages of more population,
namely council votes and score.

Not to mention how much you can gain by going from size 5 to size 14 in
only 9-10 turns, in which case you are Popbooming, and the maths
becomes irrelevant. Popbooming is so good it should be banned. Really.
If you're going to Popboom, time your construction so that all your
bases are finishing the Creches about the same time, then flick over to
Demo/Planned/Whatever and enjoy the glories of +6 Growth. 

*Any units defending the base ignore negative Morale Penalties and take
+1 Morale instead. Units that already have +1 Morale or better do not
benefit.

code:


rectanksfaq






Aquafarm



Production
Cost:

8
Rows ( = 64 Minerals with normal Industry )



Maintainance:

1
ec/turn



Provides:

+1
Nutrient from Kelp Farms



Notes : Ok, this facility has its
uses, I suppose, when a tightly packed sea-base spacing is used, and
you need to maximise production from worked tiles it can help keep a
small base eating well, even when mostly specialists. The main
negatives are that despite coming early, you won't be able to reap the
benefits untill after Gene Splicing lifts the nutrient restrictions,
and the large cost, combined with a per-turn upkeep, mean that for me,
at least, this fac is a waste of my minerals to build, and my cash to
maintain untill at least after Treefarms - by which point I'm not
really short of nutrients anyway. The case for building them in
seabases is even worse, as sea bases normally are so rich in nutrients,
that anymore is purely a waste.

Having said that, if building an Aquafarm allows you to increase the
base size, then it may pay for itself in the longterm, although if it
allows 1 specialist (producing +2 of something) it will require 128
turns to cover its costs, or with 2 extra specialists 43 turns. If the
Aquafarm allow you to use 2 extra second-tier specialists (that is if
you are working 4 tiles with kelp)the construction costs can be
regained in only 18-25 turns, and then anything after that is profit.

This is bad practise in terms of turn advantage though. Sea bases are
notoriously short of minerals, and an 8-row facility is going to block
up your build queues for a few years. A single trawler on a kelp tile
will offer just about the same benefits, for half the mineral cost and
no upkeep. I know which I would prefer.

Here's a taster of my faculty guide I'm working on. Comments very welcome.

-Jam

Last edited by Jamski on 01-04-2004 at 17:29

Snowflake

Princess

falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:34

01-04-2004 19:55

#45

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Bigger letter please. And can't we get some paragraphs too? I just can't order my eyes to stay there.

Skanky Burns

Deity

Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:34

01-04-2004 20:13

#46

Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with Lady HongHu's views.
On a more positive note though, as a newbie who this information is mainly aimed at, I find the analysis very useful.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 23:44

#47

Increase Your PM Length

Bigger letters no problem. Paragraphs can't do. Poly doesn't recognise carriage returns in HTML in posts. I can send you the raw HTML data and you can see the line breaks then if you load it in IE, Mozilla, Opera whatever, but not when in a post between the [code] tags.

I dunno why.

Anyway, is the content useful?

-Jam

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

01-04-2004 23:49

#48

Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

code:
rectanksfaq


Aquafarm



Production
Cost:

8
Rows ( = 64 Minerals with normal Industry )



Maintainance:

1
ec/turn



Provides:

+1
Nutrient from Kelp Farms





Notes :
Ok, this facility has its
uses, I suppose, when a tightly packed sea-base spacing is used, and
you need to maximise production from worked tiles it can help keep a
small base eating well, even when mostly specialists. The main
negatives are that despite coming early, you won't be able to reap the
benefits untill after Gene Splicing lifts the nutrient restrictions,
and the large cost, combined with a per-turn upkeep, mean that for me,
at least, this fac is a waste of my minerals to build, and my cash to
maintain untill at least after Treefarms - by which point I'm not
really short of nutrients anyway. The case for building them in
seabases is even worse, as sea bases normally are so rich in nutrients,
that anymore is purely a waste.




Having said that, if building an Aquafarm
allows you to increase the
base size, then it may pay for itself in the longterm, although if it
allows 1 specialist (producing +2 of something) it will require 128
turns to cover its costs, or with 2 extra specialists 43 turns. If the
Aquafarm allow you to use 2 extra second-tier specialists (that is if
you are working 4 tiles with kelp)the construction costs can be
regained in only 18-25 turns, and then anything after that is profit.




This is bad practise in terms of turn advantage
though. Sea bases are
notoriously short of minerals, and an 8-row facility is going to block
up your build queues for a few years. A single trawler on a kelp tile
will offer just about the same benefits, for half the mineral cost and
no upkeep. I know which I would prefer.

Does that look better? I can kinda FORCE 'poly to see paragraphs by using the command.

-Jam

Ouro_827

Prince

Alaska
Feb 2004
time: 20:34

02-04-2004 00:09

#49

Put an end to popups!

Die! You FOOLS! What have you done? I was doing fine, I hadn't played SMAX for over a week! No staying up till four in the morning, screaming at Yang and Domai that they were a evil union of subjecation and deserved to be forcibly removed from Chiron..... Then you had to post all these wonderful... preciousssss strategies.... Next thing I know, I sit down, read the first faction report in one of Vel's documents... on the Morganites... his ideas spark my imagination... I sit down at eight, say I'm going to stop in half an hour... Finally, after using my needlejets to snipe at the Drone ships (That fool! He got the HSA and earned my wrath), I look up..... Eleven.... oops... get up, stretch, promise to end at midnight.... still going much much later!

There's Everquest cocaine, Civ3 heroin, I now cristen SMAC/SMAX as nicotine... the only game more powerful? Sid Meier's Pirates, to be released into my waiting hands in Q4 2004, the caffiene of the games

Now, I'm disappearing for a month to read the next set and yell at Minute

In other news, anyone willing to start a SMAX PBEM with an inexpierenced player.. who will need a sub come late late May..

Snowflake

Princess

falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:34

02-04-2004 00:12

#50

Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Jamski

Does that look better? I can kinda FORCE 'poly to see paragraphs by using the command.

-Jam

Yes it does look better. Thanks dear Jamski. And the content is great.

I also tried to modify your html codes by adding the "" command and it worked for me.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

02-04-2004 00:12

#51

Got spare money?

If you play fast I can beat you before then

-Jam

Snowflake

Princess

falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:34

02-04-2004 00:13

#52

Put an end to popups!

Did I play fast enough? Beat you in posting at least.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

02-04-2004 00:17

#53

Got spare money?

Oh, I was using the command for carriage return that should always work...

I'll try it with , although I kinda like it with [*] now.

Oh, and thankyou

-Jam

Snowflake

Princess

falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:34

02-04-2004 00:24

#54

Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

means bold dear Jam. is line break. is new paragraph. But the list does look nice too. Perhaps sometimes you may want to use both.

Thank me for what?

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

02-04-2004 00:35

#55

Support Apolyton

I meant of course. You may have noticed the use of to make bold letters

You know what

-Jam

Comrade Tassadar

Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:34

02-04-2004 00:42

#56

Inflate your Upload Space

Does it have to be black background? It hurts my eyes.

Barinthus

King

A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:34

02-04-2004 02:39

#57

Increase Your PM Length

Jamski - I was going to say I agree with HongHu but you posted your change, much better.

Whee, I can't wait to see this project's completion, it'll be cool.

So should I continue digging thru threads? It seems that Minute Mirage did a great job already.

Jamski

Deity

lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34

02-04-2004 12:38

#58

Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Dig away. The more the merrier. This (hopefull) will become pretty useful.

Tass, comments on the format are unhelpful. Comments on the content are very helpful. I'd like you to be one of the above. Guess.

-Jam

Skanky Burns

Deity

Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:34

02-04-2004 13:03

#59

Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Anyway, is the content useful?

-Jam

I did comment on the content.

Dis

Emperor

Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:34

02-04-2004 14:35

#60

Enter the AD-FREE zone

what the hell is an aquafarm? Is that in the expansion?

All I know is I'm really rusty in this game. I started a game last night. I don't know why I was thinking my laser rovers could take over a city. Laser unit suck. Maybe if the hive didn't already have synthmetal defenders...

I'm not used to playing a game where the attack and defense numbers actually mean something. I'm used to playing Civ3 where a horseman with an attack of 2 can take out a spearmen with a defense of 2- even fortified within a city.

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